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Lottis
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 15:59 |
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Hi,
I have had a hard time to explain how the protocol treatment works in the body, to friends and family, and I love using metaphors. Both reading and making up myself. I guess I am a natural born author for children's books  , and explaining things so that an eight year old would get it, has always been an amusing challenge to me. It would be nice if more of you on the treatment, could contribute with your own metaphor pictures in this thread! 
So here are some suggestions to explain the 1,25 D action of the VDR: 
When the vitamin D receptors are too busy entertaining uninvited guests, the 1,25 D is circulating around in the blood system like an irritated strong house lord, abandoned from his own home.
When you are on the treatment of the protocol that has been developed by Prof. Marshall, you are letting a blood-pressure medicine of the ARB type, dock into the vitamin D receptor, and it will do it with such a strong attitude, almost like harassment, pushing aside anything else which is in the site.
This is the most important factor during the whole treatment. The VDR gets activated the proper way and gets to start all the defence actions, which are the innate immune systems defence against enimies. It is almost like an United Nation troupe that moves into a totally chaotic area to keep things in order and peace.
Now, the lifetime of the Vitamin D Receptor (VDR) are just a few hours, (about 3-6 if I remember right) After that it just dissolves and other newly created VDR's has been created in the body to give the system a new chance to control the defence. It is almost like having substitute players in a football game, to come into the game with new fresh strength. And that is why the medication has to be taken within the accurate time limits.
That's all for now! I will be back!
/Lottis
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 16:04 by Lottis
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HTN,LVH,arrhythmia,hypercholesterol e.c.t. IBS fatique chr rhinit acne rosasea appendix-75 salivestones-89, gallblader-99, fibromyositis, e.c.t. 14feb-07 25D 7,8 &1,25D 38 http://www.nordurland.is/default.asp?cat_id=27
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Elisabeth
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 18:15 |
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These are so cute Lottis!! Thanks for sharing your creativity.
I think word pictures help so much w/ most anything that's difficult to understand....
Elisabeth
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CFIDS FM hypothyroidism depression TMJ sinusitis bronchitis Ph1 Mar08 (1/08) 25D10 (3/08)25D24 (9/08)25D12 (1/08)TSH5.8 (9/08)TSH0.3 Ph2 June08 Zoloft Synthyroid MgOx Colace FiberChoice Lactaid NoIRs homebound in lo lux
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Lottis
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 20:47 |
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Thank you so much Elisabeth, for your encouragement!
It would be so fun to be able to explain the whole innate immune system and how the protocol works in the body, in pictures like that. I can see it before my eyes, an animated film like the Monster's Inc or something.
i am sure we have a lot of th1 sufferers who can contribute to making these pictures from our head. Amy wrote something about the famous artist Andy Warhol from the exhibition at the museum of moderna arts in Stockholm, that he probably was suffering from a lot of Th1 disease...
Maybe one good thing from Th1 disease is "wild imaginary". Who knows?
I wrote in the thread about prions that it seemd like the L-form bacteria maybe created the prions to be viscious, so that they could travel better around in the body like building a jetplane to get around the world faster.
I think I will have to change the vehicle from jetplane to icebreaker. We have two really strong icebreaking ships in Stockholm, working on the eastern side of Sweden. Their names are Tor and Oden. Usually ships name are female, but these ships are so strong that they got male names. But I hope the MP icebreaking ship will be called Freya instead.
You know, it could be like prions are doing something to disable the P-gp function in the blood- brain barrier. And that function is very much connected to the CYP3A4, which we know are involved in the regulation of VDR expression and so fourth. The mad cow disease goes wild in the brain, and we know that there are a lot of P-gp's in that area, to regulate what goes in and not in. It lets the minocyclin in, for instance.
And why is that? Freya maybe melts the heart of the P-gp, makes him blind of love, and lets Freya in to help out in the brain...
/LottisLast edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 20:49 by Lottis
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HTN,LVH,arrhythmia,hypercholesterol e.c.t. IBS fatique chr rhinit acne rosasea appendix-75 salivestones-89, gallblader-99, fibromyositis, e.c.t. 14feb-07 25D 7,8 &1,25D 38 http://www.nordurland.is/default.asp?cat_id=27
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Elisabeth
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 21:27 |
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That's cute Lottis, and interesting about the ships. Here in Missouri, U.S. we don't have to worry about ice breaking - especially THIS time of year!!
What is the weather like up there nowadays in "summer"?
I think I read that you moved there (Iceland) a few yrs ago; what country did you move from?
I grew up on a farm in Illinois, U.S.A. We raised cattle, hogs and grain (wheat, corn and soybeans; sometimes milo and sheep).
I would love to travel more someday. The only place I've been outside of the U.S. so far is Japan (& I LOVED it there!). Just read they had another bad earthquake; 7.2 I think - poor things!! I found them to be very sweet, gracious, hospitable people....
Elisabeth
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CFIDS FM hypothyroidism depression TMJ sinusitis bronchitis Ph1 Mar08 (1/08) 25D10 (3/08)25D24 (9/08)25D12 (1/08)TSH5.8 (9/08)TSH0.3 Ph2 June08 Zoloft Synthyroid MgOx Colace FiberChoice Lactaid NoIRs homebound in lo lux
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Lottis
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| Joined: | Sun Jan 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Akureyri, Iceland |
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 21:48 |
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Hi, yes, I too, love the Japanees people! I have orange belt in Judo! I also love the Koreans!
Well, the weather right now is a little chilly. Me feet are really cold when I sit by the computor. You would need a warm sweater to go outside. No sun today, but it has been quite fine for a while. Today it is probably less than 10 degrees.
The average temperature is around 12 degrees, but sometimes it comes up to 21-22 if we are lucky. It mostly happens here in the north, by the Arctic sea.
I moved here in august 2005 to try to live with my icelandic partner. It did not work out so well, but my daughter and I decided to stay here for a lot of reasons, so last summer we shipped a container from Sweden with all our stuff.
This summer we will be getting our first own apartment...by that time we have moved six times within three years!
I want to invite you and every member of the MP treatment to come and visit us here! It is one of the most beautiful places I have been to, and I love it here! The icelandic people are very interesting, intelligent and independent. A very strong nation. But they treasure fish-oil as ther gold mine...
I promise to guide you around if you come and visit! /Lottis
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HTN,LVH,arrhythmia,hypercholesterol e.c.t. IBS fatique chr rhinit acne rosasea appendix-75 salivestones-89, gallblader-99, fibromyositis, e.c.t. 14feb-07 25D 7,8 &1,25D 38 http://www.nordurland.is/default.asp?cat_id=27
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Elisabeth
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 22:01 |
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Lottis,
That is so sweet; thank-you! I really hope we can make it up there someday; what an AWESOME experience that would be!!
I feel sorry for you having to move (again)! I REALLY HATE moving, but know that it will be worth it in the end to be in your own place!
I just re-married last summer, and my 4 children & I moved to my husband's home in another city. After a year here it is starting to feel more like home; it takes awhile.
So you are bilingual? I am jealous!!
How cold does it get there in the winters and how many daylight hours are you getting a day there now? What time of the day is it there now?
So is the primary industry fishing?
Thanks for sharing your part of the world w/ us!!
Elisabeth
____________________
CFIDS FM hypothyroidism depression TMJ sinusitis bronchitis Ph1 Mar08 (1/08) 25D10 (3/08)25D24 (9/08)25D12 (1/08)TSH5.8 (9/08)TSH0.3 Ph2 June08 Zoloft Synthyroid MgOx Colace FiberChoice Lactaid NoIRs homebound in lo lux
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Lottis
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 22:10 |
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It is almost nine in the evening and the sun is up 24 hours a day!
There is a golf tournament at midnight every midsummer!
Read here about Akureyri!
/Lottis going to bed now
____________________
HTN,LVH,arrhythmia,hypercholesterol e.c.t. IBS fatique chr rhinit acne rosasea appendix-75 salivestones-89, gallblader-99, fibromyositis, e.c.t. 14feb-07 25D 7,8 &1,25D 38 http://www.nordurland.is/default.asp?cat_id=27
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Joy
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 00:54 |
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Hello Lottis. I love your child's description of the VDR. Very entertaining. After almost two years on the MP (well, I'm on an extended abx break now, but still on Benicar) I do not have much of an understanding of the VDR, and still have some basic questions that remain unanswered, to try and complete my understanding of what we are doing with the MP.
So, if you have time and know the answers, here are a few more questions about that elusive VDR. Please answer in the 10-yr-old comic-book fashion as above, as the Marshall/Waterhouse-PhD-level descriptions sail right over my head!
Here they are . . .
What is the VDR doing “entertaining uninvited guests”? Who/what are they? The bacteria or their byproducts? (I think that is probably right?) But what I really want to know is: If the VDR is blocked by them, what is the difference to the immune system in having the VDR blocked by these “uninvited guests” vs. having it blocked by Benicar? And what would the VDR be doing in a healthy non-infected individual? (i.e. What is it supposed to do in an ideal world and what would be docking into it if there were no Th1 bacteria present?)
If you don't know, could someone else who does please respond (remember, do it in "MP for Dummies" fashion, because I don't think my brain comprehends past fifth grade science . . .) Thanks in advance!
Joy
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CFS, FM, MCS, RA, Uveitis, Neuropathy, MGUS, porphyria, low thyroid.
Non-MP Meds: Armour Thyroid, Lotemax steroid eye drop (3/day). Milk thistle, lutein, calcium, probiotics. NoIRs, gloves, hat.
Began Ph 1 9/06, Phase 2 1/07. 25D: 32,17,5,4,4
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eClaire
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 08:41 |
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| When I try to explain bio-films, I speak of the clustered, encased cells as well guarded nuclear plants.
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Joyful
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 19:39 |
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Hi all,
I have searched around and found my metaphor for Benicar's effect on the VDR...
My picture of the VDR is like a manufacturing machine that is used by the cell to generate (express) various types of genes (?) that are used by the body to signal (initiate) processes in the body. (Oh, this is so cloudy...)
When there are pathogens throwing ligands (wrenches) into the machinery, the VDR stops producing the stuff (signals?) that the body needs. Like antibodies (???).
So along comes the Benicar kind of like a factory 'line mechanic'.
It seems to be able to 'remove the wrench,' so to speak, and get the machinery back 'on line' producing whatever it is that our 'innate immunity' needs to produce to function correctly.
Let's keep thinking! 
____________________
Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
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Joy
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Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 07:17 |
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That's very cute, Joyful. Well, my doctor said it was like an egg-cup, and think of the Benicar coming along and displacing the bacteria and sitting there in the eggcup like an egg would.
But I guess I want to know why the innate immunity works better with Benicar in the egg cup rather than whatever else gets in there. What makes it so special that it allows the immunity to function again? I mean, if something's blocked, it's blocked, right? Why does it matter to the immune system what it is that is blocking it?
And I still wonder why it's called the Vitamin D receptor in the first place -- is it supposed to suck up Vitamin D into your system? And what does it do in a healthy person, what is supposed to bind to it (in the absence of Benicar, biofilm, bacterial proteins, etc.)?
 (that's me with the dunce cap on)
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CFS, FM, MCS, RA, Uveitis, Neuropathy, MGUS, porphyria, low thyroid.
Non-MP Meds: Armour Thyroid, Lotemax steroid eye drop (3/day). Milk thistle, lutein, calcium, probiotics. NoIRs, gloves, hat.
Began Ph 1 9/06, Phase 2 1/07. 25D: 32,17,5,4,4
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Joyful
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Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 08:19 |
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Ahhh, I see where you are stuck in this picture.
The fact something is "in" the receptor doesn't mean it is always "blocking" the receptor.
Receptors are like switches (I think).
When certain things fit into them, the turn something in the machinery "on" ... those things are called "agonists" and that is what benicar does when it fits into the receptor called the Vitamin D receptor (VDR).
When other things fit into the VDR, they turn the machinery "off" ... those are called "antagonists" and capinine from bacteria is one thing that Dr. Marshall has found does this.
Of course the VDR was named before the understanding of how it really worked has come around. So it doesn't have a really good name for describing how it relates to the production of all kinds of important stuff for keeping the body working right.
So, bacteria makes things that fit in the VDR to "block" it's operation.
And benicar bumps those things out of the VDR to "unblock" it's operation.
Does that help?
____________________
Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
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eClaire
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Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 18:48 |
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| Wow! Joyful. I don't know about Joy, but that was the clearest, easiest explanation I have heard. The switching on and off of the receptor. Now I have a clearer understanding! Thanks! Claire
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Joy
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Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 20:54 |
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Yes, that is a very good analogy, the switch (or I also imagine a key). Sort of like sand in the gas tank. You can fill it with sand (even partially) but the car is going nowhere. Or put putty in your keyhole but the door doesn't unlock until the properly fitting key comes along.
And I get that the VDR, when fully functional, allows something like 32,000 genes to express themselves (that's a lot of genes! I wonder if they're all good ones?).
I went onto Wikipedia to try and read about the VDR itself and get a better understanding of what exactly it is and does, now that we know how to activate it or not (there's a complicated looking sketch of it). It said there were "some synthetic compounds" as well as D which unlocks it, and I guess we all know which synthetic compound that is . . .
So thanks very much for helping to bring this a little better into focus, I really appreciate it.
Joy (ful, also, at times)
(and Hi, Claire!)
____________________
CFS, FM, MCS, RA, Uveitis, Neuropathy, MGUS, porphyria, low thyroid.
Non-MP Meds: Armour Thyroid, Lotemax steroid eye drop (3/day). Milk thistle, lutein, calcium, probiotics. NoIRs, gloves, hat.
Began Ph 1 9/06, Phase 2 1/07. 25D: 32,17,5,4,4
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Joyful
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Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 22:31 |
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You guys are funny... like I know something about this ...hah ...not really!
I'm just someone who likes to do puzzles. You know, spread out the pieces and see if you can find the edges and some matching colors and so on.
So I have read everything on the MP site that I can and I have watched some of the referenced videos (I like pictures best) and perhaps some of it has stuck in my brain. At least this week, when the IP is minimal! 
The nature of stuff at the cellular level is wildly complex and all these metaphors do is propose a way of looking at how things work that seems to make the most sense at the time.
Some of what makes sense today will be tested on reality and found lacking tomorrow. And so science will again change their theories to line up with the newly discovered reality in front of them.
So, even though we love metaphors, it seems important to hold them lightly.
I'm particularly fond of the "signaling" metaphors because I have all this logic/computer background. Thinking of hormones as chemical "signals" is really an easy picture for me to embrace. And thinking of receptors within a cell's nucleus or on the cell's outer layer as "switches" is pretty easy too.
Where I get a little confused is when I read about non-chemical electrical signaling. Such as, the assertion that the human heart produces a electrical field large enough to "signal" information to cells in the body without using a chemical process. Huh.
Well, I guess it is our nature to desire understanding. So let's keep exploring together!
____________________
Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
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Juanita
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 19:25 |
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When speaking to the truly clueless (coughmilcough), I almost want to get out Punch and Judy puppets. Bring in the Devil puppet who represents the bacteria or illness and Punch with his wildly whacking stick is the MP. The Devil dies and all is well in the kingdom.
Violent, but to the point.
Last edited on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 20:11 by Juanita
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MCS, CFS, FM, CS, DH, stroke neuro, seizures, skin ca, IBS, eczema, irregular heartbeat| NoIR avoid light and D| Sept 21/07 25D-40.8ng/ml| May 7, 07 1,25D-35.8pg/ml
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YoKoMo
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 02:38 |
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| I wrote an entire short story allegory explaining the disease and cure. It is about a farm which is the body, which gets sick with vermin (the l-from bacteria), and Vitamin D is straw. The allegorical elements are about 15 deep because the actual system is so complex. I thought it was funny, though I think I'm a bit too esoteric for the normal sense of humor.
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CFS food sensitivities arthralgia 125D37 NoIRs 1hr lite/day covered up Ph1 Dec07 Ph2 Feb08 25D9 Mar08
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Lottis
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Posted: Thu Nov 6th, 2008 11:07 |
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Joy wrote:Here they are . . .
1) What is the VDR doing “entertaining uninvited guests”? 2) Who/what are they? The bacteria or their byproducts? (I think that is probably right?) But what I really want to know is: If the VDR is blocked by them, 3) what is the difference to the immune system in having the VDR blocked by these “uninvited guests” vs. having it blocked by Benicar? 4) And what would the VDR be doing in a healthy non-infected individual? (i.e. What is it supposed to do in an ideal world and what would be docking into it if there were no Th1 bacteria present?) |
I love your questions Joy! Just today I am peeking out from the brain fog, so I will try to start communicating again. I am not an expert on this but will go on trying to give my pictures. Feel free anybody to give your own, nothing is right or wrong in this thread, it is metaphors! I put numbers on you questions...
1) and 2) Look at Joyfuls and my comments below.
3) and 4) I guess blocking is not a word we should use. Switching on is better, just like Joyful wrote in the thread. And as a switch, I think a dimmer switch would be a good metaphor. Not just on and off but more like a dimmer, according to how effective the VDR is working.
Switch to the right and the light gets brighter, switch to the left and it gets darker. Benicar is putting the switch in the middle, OR switching it to the brightest light, I am not sure about what. There are probably other factors as well, that puts the switch in the middle position.
The resting position for the King 1,25 OH D in his own thrown...when all is well and peaceful in his country...
But this is a warrior King, and he is not lazy, he goes out in all the battles, as the army front figure, so therefore, the enemies, who has gotten into his kingdom, sometimes gets into his castle, takes over his thrown and prevents him from ruling. Oh my gracious God, what shall he do now!?
He goes out to his neighbor countries and friends, and asks them for help. And of course they want to help, they let him sit in their offices and make phone calls to UN and Red Cross and everybody he can think of (now, this is the 1,25 D which is now interfering with the other hormone receptors).
He cannot go home and he cannot give clear directions to his occupied castle. It gets confusing for everybody involved, because sometimes secret messages is getting back and fourth into and out from the castle, but it just makes the prisoners, the friends of the Kings and the King even more anxious...
But...then United Nations comes, (Benicar) takes over the thrown, and makes the enemies very, very angry indeed!  They have to be defeated and the battle goes on around the castle fields. It is very much blood and screaming and pain for some time....
but in the quietness after the battle, the UN rules peacefully until King 1,25 D comes riding back on his white beautiful Icelandic horse stallion...! And everybody is cheering and are so happy! The King rules again!
Ps. Everybody; Come and visit me, we really need tourists now, the icelandic krona has turned into the Titanic krona, sinking among the ice in the ocean...http://www.nordurland.is/default.asp?cat_id=27
Joyful wrote: My picture of the VDR is like a manufacturing machine that is used by the cell to generate (express) various types of genes (?) that are used by the body to signal (initiate) processes in the body. (Oh, this is so cloudy...)
When there are pathogens throwing ligands (wrenches) into the machinery, the VDR stops producing the stuff (signals?) that the body needs. Like antibodies (???).
So along comes the Benicar kind of like a factory 'line mechanic'.
It seems to be able to 'remove the wrench,' so to speak, and get the machinery back 'on line' producing whatever it is that our 'innate immunity' needs to do |
Yes, I like that machine picture. I makes me think about a Computer server.
And the server gets bugs, viruses, Trojans and all else that there is to disrupt its functions....Our bodies are like the most complicated computer program. It is more than we can ever imagine.
YoKoMo wrote:| I wrote an entire short story allegory explaining the disease and cure. |
Please, share this story with me/us! Do you have a link? Otherwise just copy and paste it in this thread, please be so kind and do this!Last edited on Thu Nov 6th, 2008 12:42 by Lottis
____________________
HTN,LVH,arrhythmia,hypercholesterol e.c.t. IBS fatique chr rhinit acne rosasea appendix-75 salivestones-89, gallblader-99, fibromyositis, e.c.t. 14feb-07 25D 7,8 &1,25D 38 http://www.nordurland.is/default.asp?cat_id=27
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