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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 18:40 |
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Posted May 8, copied from Dog Food thread.
OK, step one has been completed in the process of putting my cats on the MP. I am now making their pet food.
http://www.catinfo.org/makingcatfood.htm
I am buying whole chickens and putting everything thru my powered meat grinder, tho I may have to buy a more powerful one, as mine seems to marginally bog down. I put everything into the grinder, bones, giblets, skin and meat. I am adding the taurine and a little iodized salt, but not much, and will probably add a small amount of E. I used the recommended procedure of dousing the bird and giblets in boiling water for a few minutes before carving into grinder sized chunks, but only long enough to kill pathogens on the exterior, and so the cats are getting essentially raw meat. The ground meat is mixed well with the additives and water and is then frozen in small batches. Both cats took to this food immediately. I don't do the chunked part of the recipe because one of my cats has a tender mouth and would probably leave the chunks behind to be eaten by the other cat, upsetting the ratio of meat to other ingredients (bones, giblets,additives). Cynthia
Update at re-post: Am now removing backs and necks for soup, as this was too much Calcium, and their BMs were very hard and powdery.
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 18:51 |
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Well, can it be that my cats are having vitamin D withdrawal? It was a bit past 1.5 months since changing to homemade D free cat food when I noticed both cats were not eating well. AND, Money Penny (originally "Mommy kitty", sounds kind of the same to her, and, yes, she is as mousy looking as the original Money Penny in James Bond movies) has had her diabetes reach a crisis. I suspected the diabetes because her hair started to be as kinky as was Tigger's, my other cat, her kitten, 4 years ago when he had diabetes. She became almost too weak to walk and had incontinence, but at least made it to the bathroom before leaking. And, I would swear that she was dizzy, as she couldn't walk straight, kept going in circles, and would walk into corners and be almost unable to figure out how to get out of the corner. For those of you that have had very high blood sugar, is dizziness and incontinence symptoms of diabetes, or do you think they are her IP?
We got out our old blood sugar measuring system and made a few tests to make sure it worked. It appears the old cylinders are OK. Her blood sugar level was 320. With her diabetes confirmed, and the similar symptoms in both cats, I felt we could not work only on the Diabetes, but had to do something to tone down the D withdrawal too. So:
1. We added 2 to 4 teaspoons per day of the old D laced cat food back into their diet. Both are getting 2 teaspoons now.
2. We have a good supply of Glipizide we got for Tigger, and because he responded to it so quickly, we had a lot left over. Money has been on it for 12 days. She has improved already to the point of jumping up on chairs again and making it to the litter box OK, with a blood sugar level of 113 today.
I am not adding Benicar yet because we will be going on vacation in another month or 2 and have to leave the cats with a relative, and I don't want the cats to be a problem for the relative.
I would appreciate any comments any of you have. Are these all diabetes symptoms for Money Penney, or are some possibly D withdrawal? Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Joyful
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 18:53 |
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Thanks for sharing this interesting information with us Cynthia. 
Why do you add the taurine?
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 20:01 |
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| Cats have a need for taurine and the only place it is found in abundance is in heart muscle. You will generally find it added as a separate ingredient to cat food. Check out the internet on this, and see what you find. If I could find a ready supply of beef heart, I would probably use that, but would have to figure out how much. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Joyful
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 20:29 |
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Ah, that makes sense.
Seems like whole chickens come with the heart most of the time, is that not sufficient?
I know Gary (member garyv) raises his own cows and has posted about the using the heart... maybe that is a good connection?
Last edited on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 00:24 by Joyful
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 23:42 |
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| Well, you are probably right, tho I've gotten chickens without the heart. What I've found so far is that cats can't synthesize taurine, that there does not seem to be the problem with an overdose of this, and that heat destroys a certain percentage of taurine. Well, it looks like the dark meat of chickens also has some taurine too. I am probably putting in more taurine than is really needed, but I will also be canning a percentage of the cat food I am making, so that we will have plenty for my relative when we go on vacation, so a little extra taurine in the mix might be a good idea. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Joyful
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 00:28 |
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I guess I tend to wonder about 'supplementation' for creatures that survive ok in the 'wild'.
Did you ever read the book, "Pottenger's Cats"? I found it thought provoking.
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 06:22 |
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| Well, I read the first 3 pages available in your link. Wonder what would have happened to the deficient cats if ALL of the cats had not been feed cod liver oil. Seems like the deficient cats got a double whammy. Our Money Penny had been dumped in the neighborhood as a kitten (I assume) and had carried 2 litters by the time we took her in. She had been eating avocados, she was so desperate . She always had a wheezing problem from the ordeal, and it is a wonder that she didn't come down with diabetes sooner, as did her kitten, Tigger, 4 years earlier than her. I guess Tigger may have suffered the fate of the study's first generation of kittens from the deficient cats, as I think she was still starving during part of the gestation period with him. Oh well, let's think of kinder thoughts, shall we? Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2009 16:55 |
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Well, when it rains, it pours, at least on the MP. Looks like during Money Penny's crisis, not only did she have a diabetes sugar level high enough to debilitate her, incontinence, dizziness, and maybe brain fog, but she had developed an apparent infection in several of her teeth that made it extremely painful to eat anything that wasn't very smooth in texture. I noted that every time she tried to eat anything that wasn't smooth, she would start to eat, and then jerk her head back as tho she had been hit in the mouth by a static shock, and then literally run away from the bowl like it was going to bite her again if she was near.
So, off to the vet, and home with some Augmentin (Amoxicillin) tablets. These work on the cell wall of bacteria, and since neither cat is on Benicar yet, I don't expect any problem with this antibiotic. The vet mentioned something about maybe pulling teeth after the infection settles. But, if this is really a problem brought about by withdrawing vitamin D from the diet and therefore a change in the immune system, I don't expect we will actually need to pull teeth. Happy to say that all of her blood work was normal. We figured out that she is about 14 years old, so she shares the late life downward spiral that a goodly number of us here have had. Tigger's apparent lack of appetite at around the same time as Money Penny's crisis has past, and he is eating normally again. After Money is doing better, I will start to reduce and eliminate the little bit of D enriched food they are getting.
Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2009 20:12 |
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| OK, as of now, Money Penny has no more infection in her teeth, and she has been off glipizide for about 2 weeks, with her blood sugar stabilizing at around 100, swing up and down a bit from there. Tigger is now off the D cat food and Money is being weaned. Thinking about the Benicar soon. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Joyful
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Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2009 23:51 |
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Thanks for the update Cynthia! 
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Wed Aug 12th, 2009 01:58 |
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Cats are on MP. Started yesterday. One table spoon of powdered milk, used to cut the olmesartan, and 1 well ground tablet of generic olmesartan. Hope the cats can handle the lactose. Then I put 1 level teaspoon in each cats food bowl. with food for 1/3 of a day. Money Penny was starting to have problems eating again, tho her gums look no where near as bad as before. So I again went with the blended food, and have made sure that she eats most of hers when fresh food is offered. I think I will wait and see if the MP will clear the gum problem. Actually, both cats were off there food a bit when starting, which is disturbing when you are dependent on their eating regularly to get an adequate and regular amount of olmesartan. Tigger sniffed the food and walked away. He appears to not like it, but being in good health, I will just let him get hungry, and as the dishes were empty this morning, and again by mid afternoon, I think he will do OK.
Blood sugar was OK for both cats at start. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 19:53 |
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Just a quick update. Shifted to 1 T powdered milk mixed with 2 40 mg tablets of generic olmesartan ground fine, with 1/8 t added per serving of food per cat 3 times per day. Money Penny's mouth sensitivity has passed and she is eating ground, but unblended raw chicken prepared as in first post above.
Well, I should point out that this is all an experiment, as I have been reminded by TM's recent talk that humans have a very different VDR than that of other animals. With Money Penny's recent crisis, it was easy to forget that there well may be no value in what I am doing. But, even olmesartan was not recognized as the prime ingredient in the Protocol early on, and I think it fair to say that Trevor, and all of the rest of us as well, lucked out that olmesartan was chosen and turned out to be so vital.
So, to list my observations that may give me hope:
Vitamin D is used in just about every animal food produced in the civilized world, certainly in all cat foods I've checked. So, someone expects D to work in cats.
Both of my cats started to have problems on D avoidance. Tigger has never had appetite problems since having diabetes. He obviously remembers how important food was to him during his diabetes when he was constantly hungry. But, he has had repeated dips in his appetite while on a D free diet.
Money, while on a D free diet, had her diabetes reach a crisis, had her gums become so inflamed she couldn't eat any but blended food, and appeared to be dizzy/brain fogged (diabetes?).
Both cats took to the D free raw chicken immediately, and then weren't interested in the fortified food for the first few weeks, then, with the above noted problems, they developed a craving for the D laced food, which became apparent when given very small amounts to help with the odd symptoms. Not proof of anything, I am sure, just something I noted.
I will be observing them over the next couple of months, and may add Minocyclin after that. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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laura1814
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Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 08:42 |
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Fascinating. How are Money and Tigger doing, Cynthia?
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CFS, EBV, PCOS, POF, TMJ, hypoglycemia, hyperlipidemia, MP Ph1 1/08, Ph2 4/08, Ph3 1/09; enzymes, & ranitidine PRN, NoIRs, low lux home, limited outings, covered up, 1,25D=37, 25D=9.
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 16:31 |
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Hi Laura. Well it is probably about time to give an update. They are both doing very well at this time. Tigger shows no particular problem with the D withdrawal any more or from the olmesartan, and is running around the house like a kitten.
Money has not had any problem with her teeth since last report, and is tolerating a little tooth brushing in the previously inflamed area, so that is a good sign. We have some soft children's tooth brushes that we use for them, and start by brushing their face area in front of the teeth, and they rapidly get the idea to relax their lips and let the brush land on their teeth. Tigger is particularly fond of this, and comes up onto my lap and rubs his teeth against my hand several times a day to show he wants his teeth brushed.
The one thing that seems to be different is that Money Penny seems to be near constantly me-owing. This has gotten quite chronic, so I think she is not feeling too well. Sometimes she is able to jump up to chair level, and sometimes not. I see this as she is a lap cat, and there are times she seems to want up, but won't actually jump up. I will pick her up when I see this and she appears quite happy to have been picked up. In spite of the unusual increase in the amount of me-owing, she will start to purr when petted, so I am assuming the discomfort she feels is moderate.
I don't think moving on to the antibiotics is going to be practical because of the difficulty of determining the effect. So will likely just keep going with the homemade food and the olmesartan.
Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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laura1814
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:19 |
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That is really interesting! I am glad they are doing well.
Have you noticed any tendencies on their part to avoid sun or bright lights? Just curious.
I wonder if Miss Money is having joint pain, like so many of us do on the MP? Or maybe she's having a little brain fog and is feeling confused and wants reassurance. In either case, picking her up and putting her in your lap sounds like the cure.
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CFS, EBV, PCOS, POF, TMJ, hypoglycemia, hyperlipidemia, MP Ph1 1/08, Ph2 4/08, Ph3 1/09; enzymes, & ranitidine PRN, NoIRs, low lux home, limited outings, covered up, 1,25D=37, 25D=9.
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 14:55 |
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| I keep the cats away from direct light in the morning, but they can manage to find some sun in the afternoon in unattended parts of the house, and I sometimes see them partaking. I figure if one of them seems to be having an especially hard time for some reason, I may do more to keep them out of the sun. Or when I have time, I'll add some foil down low on those windows and see if there is less meowing. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sun Nov 15th, 2009 18:27 |
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| Just a quick up date on Money and Tigger. Tiger is still running around like a kitten. Not going to do anything different for him than just the regular Beni I put in both cat's food. Money penny has been up and down with both the mewing, and the need to be lifted onto the lap. I think this variability would indicate something is going on. If her improvements were just from having gotten her blood sugar down with the glipizide, I would have expected the improvements to be slowly improving, not in an up and down fashion. That is much more reminiscent of the protocol. At her worst, she is not ready for the addition of Mino, so it will be steady as she goes with Beni only and no D food. Most of the windows have heat reducing film, and she doesn't spend much time in the sun, so at this point I don't intend to do anything with more light avoidance, except to add more heat reducing film on the rest of the windows. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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BARNEY
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Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 01:51 |
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One of the nurses (who used to be on the MP site) had his cats and dog(s) on MP and felt it not necessary to shield them from sun, saying that he felt the fur was thick enough to protect them.
Keep up the good work Cynthia. I also made my dog (Amanda) all her food. She was Akita/Chow mix weighing in at 93 lbs and lived to be 14 1/2 yrs old. I had no problem w/fleas and ticks with her...I used a lot of garlic in her food. It was cooked, not raw, even tho I thought about giving her only raw food.
HANG IN THERE, WE WILL MAKE IT!!!BARNEY
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 22:11 |
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| One other symptom for Money Penny to report. Pretty much since the start of the D free food, Money has been irritable. Poor Tigger. She just goes after him every day or so for no reasonable reason we can see. She just appears to be in a snit. We have 2 cat beds. A his and a hers? No, a hers and a hers. She will oust poor Tigger, in fact, she just has to come over and look at him, and he runs off. Then she walks away and doesn't bother to use the bed. Seem familiar? Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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