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Carricol
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 03:18 |
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It seems that there are still a lot of forces pulling in the opposite direction from the MP on Vitamin D. Doctor Mercola has a lot of influence and is widely read. Would anyone like to comment on the attached. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/06/28/if-you-choose-to-take-oral-vitamin-d-how-much-should-you-take.aspx?source=nl
Is there some way to enlighten him?
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Sarcoidosis 125D38 Ph1 Nov07, fluoxitine Lithium Synthroid 5-HTP tyrosine, NOIRs lite exp r/t commute cover up, Ph2 Jan08 25D9 Feb08
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natalie17
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 07:01 |
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In fact, your vitamin D level should never be below 82 nmol/L (32 ng/ml), and any levels below 50 nmol/L (20 ng/ml) are considered serious deficiency states, increasing your risk of as many as 16 different cancers and autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis.
Yet the MP is curing them.
Hmmm.....
And just for reference.... CANCER and Th1 inflammation.
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CFS/ME from June05| Ph1-July07| Ph2-Feb08 | Natalie's Story | ABCofMP
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Deb Grabetz
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 12:06 |
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Carricol wrote: It seems that there are still a lot of forces pulling in the opposite direction from the MP on Vitamin D. Doctor Mercola has a lot of influence and is widely read. Would anyone like to comment on the attached. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/06/28/if-you-choose-to-take-oral-vitamin-d-how-much-should-you-take.aspx?source=nl
Is there some way to enlighten him?
There is a lot of Vitamin D in the news for sure BUT I look at it from a different perspective. People who are ill with autoimmune disease are not those who should be supplementing Vitamin D, this has been proven! It would be like giving candy to a diabetic! ...and even the diabetics are being cured with lack of Vitamin D!
Take a look at the Cal-trate bottles. There are warnings for Sarcoidosis patients not to take these calcium tabs. So someone is paying attention! More Vitamin D "mania in the media", it's like a diet fad! That's the really sad thing about all this media attention and I do mean sad because I've read so many posts where members before finding MP were being "poisoned" with high doses of Vitamin D, at their doc's suggestions and getting sicker...because it was the ONE thing they should not have been taking.
As for me, both times that I went into a flare with my Sarc have been soon after sun exposure and excessive fish in my diet! Hmmmmmm.
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Sarcoidosis/lungs, lymph,liver, GI, neuro, D12542, Ph17/07, MPh2 9/07, B12, cover up, NoIRs,return to work after 2 years off- 4/07D2511
5/09 D25<4
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Markt9452
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 21:24 |
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Some interesting comments at the bottom...
"Lets give credit to Adele Davis the mother of Natural Foods movement. She was recommending in some situations 20,000 D back in the 1960's. Wouldn't it be nice to see her name mentioned by the medical."
In 1974 Adelle Davis died of bone cancer.
My D3 was 60 nmol/l, so I took 1.5 tsp. of Melrose cod liver oil (brand recommended by naturopath), with no increase in level. Then for 5 weeks took 1 tbsp., also no increase. Got more sun exposure, but could only get up to 80. Looks like I'm out of wack & don't absorb it from supplements.
Makes you wonder what is happening to all that D3 - Maybe it just evaporated?
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Th1 Lyme 125D20 D2510 Ph1Feb08 Ph2Apr08 daily lite exp covered up NoIRs| MyStory|
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 21:51 |
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Hector DeLuca, the Vit D research pioneer who is credited with discovering 1,25-D, recently had to relinquish his departmental duties because he was suffering from Lymphoma:
http://www.wisbiomed.org/biotech_news/index.php?category_id=578&subcategory_id=2187
Wouldn't you think 'they' would notice the association between Vit D and Cancer? Talk about wearing blinders...
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Freddie Ash
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 00:58 |
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HI ALL
This is Fred in WV. Just a note about not taking any vit-D. My first cousion's wife died last week. Two years ago in April I told her that vit-D was killing people because the bacitera lived on it and it suppressed the immune system untill you would die from it. I told her that all this stuff you read and hear on TV to scare people into taking more to prevent cancer and heart diseases was all wrong.
Well about 5 weeks ago she had to cancer of the female organs. When they removed them they found she had spleen & liver problems from the cancer. She started chemo treatments. Last week she was put into the hospital because she had had a heart attak. She died from the heart attack.
So I am saying here once again, DO NOT TAKE VIT-D AND STAY AWAY FROM FOODS THAT HAVE IT AND STAY OUT OF THE LIGHTS OF ALL KINDS.
Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.
Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie
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Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-meds digitek, L-thyroxine, nexium, furosemide, nattokinase36mg,eat cinnamon w/meals,25D-7; 125-D43
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 03:55 |
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Hey, we made the July 4th Washington Post. Page A01 .. "Some Seek Guidelines to Reflect Vitamin D's Benefits" by Rob Stein:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/03/AR2008070303822.html
..Trevor..
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geneartemenko
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 20:24 |
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Hi,All
I had requested information about vitamin D in my favorite made in Ireland "Dubliner" cheese directly from the company. This is the answer :
"Thank you for visiting Dubliner does naturally contain Vit D - typical value in the specification is 0.26 mcg / 100g. "
How much is it for us?
I eat usually 100-150g in a week .Is it OK? I think any good natural dairy product contain some quantity of vitamin D .
Gene
Last edited on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 20:32 by geneartemenko
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Lyme 05 125D51 25D40(Aug07) Ph1 Feb08 NoIRs low lux home & work covered up on commute 25D19.3(May08) Ph2May08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 22:00 |
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Five micrograms is about 400IU, so 0.26-0.5 micrograms per week should be fine for you. Especially as your bones will need calcium, and Dubliner cheese is an excellent source of that
For comparison, a typical egg yolk typically has about 60 units, or about 0.75 micrograms. This is a level which often gives MP folk a hard time Especially as it is ingested all at once...
ps: I think 300 grams of cheese tastes better than an egg, in any case
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geneartemenko
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 23:08 |
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Thank you Dr.Marshall, this is good news
Gene
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Lyme 05 125D51 25D40(Aug07) Ph1 Feb08 NoIRs low lux home & work covered up on commute 25D19.3(May08) Ph2May08
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Deb Grabetz
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 23:50 |
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Recently I was telling a friend, who by the way is well and always scratching her head at all of my herx...how I always knew I was sensitive to Vitamin D. Now at the time, because I had no dx, I thought it was all allergy. So I gave up drinking milk to try to calm things. Of course, I didn't realize I was still consuming eggs, fish etc as I had not made that connection. I was thinking strictly "dairy". Because I love cheese, had also not given that up.
Yet when I ate any of these products, especially a three egg omelet for breakfast, I felt absolutely awful. Once I started researching MP, after being dx'd with Sarc, and learning about the Vitamin D connection,
... it all finally made sense!  Thank you Trevor!!!!!
Last edited on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 23:51 by Deb Grabetz
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Sarcoidosis/lungs, lymph,liver, GI, neuro, D12542, Ph17/07, MPh2 9/07, B12, cover up, NoIRs,return to work after 2 years off- 4/07D2511
5/09 D25<4
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suecat
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 71 |
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Offline
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 04:00 |
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Hi All- Like my Avatar? I've always been partial to cats and it fits my last name Cato
This question is directed towards Natalie perhaps because she's a vegeterian but certainly anyone can respond.
I truly enjoy a splurge in regard to carbs on occasion. Muffins are particularly enticing to me but of course they contain eggs. Right now I have zip will power I'd perfer to buy something premade so I can buy a small quantity. I shop at Whole Foods and they have vegan products. Do you know if they are eggless? I think by definition they are?--no animal products-- right?
Also I get so tired of eggwhites for breakfast, anyone got some other ideas?. I cannot do dairy at all.
Thanks,
sue
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FMS/CFS 125D55 25D32 Ph1Apr08 cal/mag guaifensen gabapentin doxylamine NoIRs covered up low lux home
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natalie17
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 04:36 |
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Hi Sue,
This would've been great in your own topic.. but seeing as I don't know how to move it I will reply here anyway.
I've found a good alternative to muffins are scones - I used un-enriched wholegrain/meal self raising flower and you can put a few sultanas through them. A bakery near me does the hard work for me (and has ingredients lists) but scones have no eggs - although they do traditionally contain a fair amount of milk. No sugar or sweetener needed either. A bit of butter on a sultana scone tastes great .
You can also do alternatives like feta & spinach scones... or for you maybe finely diced sundried tomatoes...pretty much anything you like. Very versatile.
As for Whole Foods you would have to read the ingredients just like anywhere else - but if it says vegan, it can't contain any animal products, including eggs - as you said, that is what vegan is. There is a whole foods shop my parents go to for me (I am unable to shop as yet) and they've noticed that a lot of things contain soy - so that's something to look out for.
Also I hope you have seen http://www.mp-recipes.com/mp_recipes.html which contains a recipe for MP safe Crepes.
I have a thoroughly inspected (for any offending ingredients) piece of bread, toasted, with nut butter on it for breakfast and a piece of fruit or a non-offending protein shake (approved by my Doc, MP safe.. and not an option if you can't have dairy anyway). If you have a bread maker now is a great time to put it to use.
I also got very sick of egg whites, but there are lots of things you can do to them too (fritatas, scrambled with flavours.. etc. I'm sure you've tried it all if you got sick of them like me.)
Just think of things you like, and alter them. The only thing I do is make sure I have carbs in no more than 2 meals (and I have 4 small meals a day). So I will have that toast for breakfast, and say I have a small pasta dish for dinner - I might have a salad for lunch and nuts and cheese for an afternoon snack.
I haven't found the MP diet very restricting, all I miss is my mushrooms.
Hope this helps
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CFS/ME from June05| Ph1-July07| Ph2-Feb08 | Natalie's Story | ABCofMP
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geneartemenko
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 21:54 |
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Hi.All
I would like to ask one ,probably naive or even stupid question.
Dr.Marshall tell as that"The 25-D seems to be the most critical factor as to whether the immune system is able to start working. Any level of 25-D above about 20ng/ml is likely to be acting as an immunosuppressant, with an action very similar to that of corticosteroids."
Why theoretically we can't use the level of vitamin D for suppress the immune system in critical situation with IP or even on Stage 5. Please be indulgent. I am only bookkeeper.
Gene.
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Lyme 05 125D51 25D40(Aug07) Ph1 Feb08 NoIRs low lux home & work covered up on commute 25D19.3(May08) Ph2May08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 22:30 |
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My BioEssay suggests that Vit D will find a role as a useful palliative steroid, and it should be prescribed by a physician. I am not sure if that statement found it to the final text or got lost in peer-review, but it certainly is something which we have contemplated.
The problem with using Vit D is that the body adjusts too slowly to its removal, and folk sick with Th1 would experience real problems upon withdrawal, just as they do when they come to us after a course of high-dose Vit D. There are better ways to palliate. Stage 5 is usually benign, and has never required, or responded to, "the nuclear option."
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eClaire
Member
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 1396 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 00:21 |
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In regard to eggs and D, while I try to follow the MP diet, at times I cheat as permitted and as my body allows. I have found no problem eating a piece of cake here and there in regard to the egg content. And what it does for my moral is immeassurable.
As for folic acid, I've found that while Pepperidge Farm whole wheat bagels and whole wheat mini bagels do not contain folic acid (or egg), they do contain some sugar. But for someone who is not well enough to make her food 100% perfection, they (1/4 of a large bagel or 1/2 or 1 mini) are an easy source of sustenance without much effort (along with my cheddar cheese slices).
However, at this point in the treatment, I wouldn't dare try eating a whole egg or use salad dressing with raw egg. Think I'll wait for that for after the MP.
Claire
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42mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob IBS/GERD osteopor; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings; Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08
* Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan09 * Olm.alone.Jun10
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geneartemenko
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 01:48 |
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Thank you, Dr. Marshall, I understand. But it is interesting to know how quick could immune system respond on Vitamin D injection. If it's quick, than in some really critical situation, if nothing works, it probably worth to do. Or it is more complicate then I think?
Gene
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Lyme 05 125D51 25D40(Aug07) Ph1 Feb08 NoIRs low lux home & work covered up on commute 25D19.3(May08) Ph2May08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 04:12 |
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It is far more complicated Gene. All an injection does is get a massive amount of steroid into your body. It is how that affects systems other than the immune system, and how long it takes for the effects to wear off, which give rise to the problems.
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geneartemenko
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 17:47 |
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Thank You Dr Marshall. I new that it should be more complicated. But receiving nice post directly from you working as a palliate. Make a notice for improving Your protocol.
Gene
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Lyme 05 125D51 25D40(Aug07) Ph1 Feb08 NoIRs low lux home & work covered up on commute 25D19.3(May08) Ph2May08
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cwylie1
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 02:44 |
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I sent an email to both Dr. Mercola's site and Mike Adams, the Health Ranger site, as he was hawking a new line of Vit. D pills, about exogenous 25D being a secosteroid...no response from either. Perhaps someday....
Here's to health!!
Carol 
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Migraines, RLS, MCS, ADD, tinitus, fatigue, tachycardia, Brain fog, mild HTN, joint pain, Ph1-6/9/08; 25-D 47 0n 5/08,43 on 7/28/08 and 36 on 9/6/08. 1,25D-66 on 5/02/08 and 55 on 9/6/08; Covered up, r/t to work, NoIRs. low lites.
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