 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Caitiegirl
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 04:24 |
|
I went in for my yearly checkup (2 years late) and the doctor was telling me that he could accept that maybe my daughter's situation was exceptional but that vitamin D really had helped many of his patients tremendously. He told me about an aerobics instructor who was thin, excercising, taking extra calcium and doing everything right but losing bone mass at an alarming rate. He said that after a few months of massive vitamin D supplementation her bone mass had increased. I really didn't argue but told him that I wanted to plant a bug in his ear. "When she is back with some sort of inflammatory or autoimmune disease please remember what I am saying and look into this protocol for her." What else do you say?
There are so many poor studies on Vitamin D cited as dogma and doctors can't possibly read all of them. I would bet most doctors read the abstracts or press releases or rely on drug reps for their information. Is there a paper you guys recommend I can leave with them next time. I wish I had taken the time to take Dr Marshall's paper on Vitamin D Discovery outpaces FDA decision making. Is this my best choice or should I jump off my soap box one more time just wait for the world to catch on?
I can't wait until Caitie is completely well and we can go visit some of the naysayers and show them what this protocol has done for her. I just have to figure a way to do it without paying for an office visit (lol). Goodnight all.
Mindy
____________________
Caitlin(17) lyme,seizures, myoclonus, dystonia, digestive, chronic headache, mental fog: 10/23/07 25D 36 1,25D 58, 1/18/08 25D 9.9 Cut sun/D 9/26/07 Benicar 10/25/07, NoIRs 10/29/07
|
Carricol
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 04:58 |
|
Cwylie1,
Would it help if several of us sent emails to Dr. Mercola and the Health Ranger?
____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D38 Ph1 Nov07, fluoxitine Lithium Synthroid 5-HTP tyrosine, NOIRs lite exp r/t commute cover up, Ph2 Jan08 25D9 Feb08
|
cwylie1
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 13:11 |
|
Hi Carricol and All,
You know, it couldn't hurt to contact Mercola.com and the Health Ranger. One of the rules in management is that if just on person complains, you can pretty much ignore it as it is just their issue. However, if a group of people come to you with the same complaint or whatever, you are obliged to address it. That's a paraphrase from many years ago, but you know what I mean. One lone squeeky wheel may not even be heard, but many squeeky wheels may at least be heard.
The wheels of progress move sloooooooooooowly. 
have a great day,
Carol 
P.S. Freddie, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your cousin's wife. Please accept my sympathies for your and your family.
____________________
Migraines, RLS, MCS, ADD, tinitus, fatigue, tachycardia, Brain fog, mild HTN, joint pain, Ph1-6/9/08; 25-D 47 0n 5/08,43 on 7/28/08 and 36 on 9/6/08. 1,25D-66 on 5/02/08 and 55 on 9/6/08; Covered up, r/t to work, NoIRs. low lites.
|
Dave L
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 17:20 |
|
I have what might be a dumb question, but I wonder it anyway, taking into account the likelihood that I've missed an article or a FAQ somewhere.
I think I read the suggestion that the high rate of Th1 inflammatory diseases in western cultures in the past 50 years is in part due to our Vit D "enriched" diet, and the culture of sun worship.
My question: has Th1 inflammation been studied in Polynesia? These people seem to get a lot of sun and have a lot of Vit D in a seafood diet. I guess a related question is Do people vary much in how important eyes and skin are to Vit. D uptake?
Is light relatively benign for some people compared to dietary D?
Hope this isn't off-thread.
Dave
____________________
Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
|
Knochen
Advocate
| Joined: | Thu Feb 23rd, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 358 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 17:42 |
|
Hi Dave,
Yes, this has been discussed a few times. Have a look at this thread, for example.
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/view_topic.php?forum_id=19&id=5324
Note especially this comment by Dr. Marshall:
I realized that sunlight was a key factor in 1986. At the time I was standing in the main square of old-city Stockholm, waiting for a walking-tour guide. All our other European capital-city walking-tours had been at night, but Stockholm was during the day. I got very sick.
At that point I realized that the amount of sunshine in even the most northerly capital in the World (almost) was way too much for somebody with Th1 disease, I realized that the sensitivity went way beyond anything science had envisioned, and that latitude offered no protection whatsoever - because the degree of sensitivity was way greater than the amount of protection offered by latitidue.
However, the corollary is probably true - that folks living on the equator cannot escape sunlight. I worked for a year in Papua New Guinea (teaching at the PNG University of Technology)(1974) and I can tell you that the the sun there is fierce. But it is a mistake to assume that the sun elsewhere is less fierce to a degree that would alleviate Th1 illness.
..Trevor..
ps: There have been reports that 50% of folks in Papua New Guinea are seropositive for Lyme, and the CDC has tried hard to discredit the implications of this. See http://tinyurl.com/dvgrs
____________________
Reiter's Syndrome 25+ yrs, fatigue, joints, muscles, migraine, brainfog| 25D 6 ng/ml |Benicar May06|Ph1 June06|Ph 2 Sept06|Ph 3 Jan 07|NoIRs K-Cream Zinc Oxide cream - Always covered!
|
Dave L
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 18:34 |
|
Thanks, Knochen.
Dr Marshall's anecdote certainly addresses whether latitude makes any difference in the effects of light (I life at the same latitude as Stockholm).
The other side of the topic still makes me wonder: wouldn't one expect to see that either the indigenous residents of say, the South Pacific have high rates of Th1 inflammations because of their seafood diet and because of their light exposure, or if they don't have high rates, that they have some inherited resistance to getting Th1 inflammations? Having wondered this, I quickly confess to utter ignorance about the health of Polynesians in their traditional settings.
Also, back to the possiblity of individual variations in reactions to light: I tan easily and as yet have noticed no sensitivity to light (subjective assessment); my wife burns easily and has been laid low by unwise exposure to intense sunlight 8 weeks ago that has knocked her off the abx - and off her feet still.
Dave
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 18:36 by Dave L
____________________
Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
|
Knochen
Advocate
| Joined: | Thu Feb 23rd, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 358 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 19:43 |
|
I tan easily and as yet have noticed no sensitivity to light (subjective assessment)
Well Dave, I might differ with you on that statement in light of your comments elsewhere on your neural herxing. It could very well be that is a result of light exposure. It can be a day or even two after exposure before it manifests itself, so the only real way to know is to stay totally bottled up for a while, then try an exposure and then go back int he dark for a few days and see if you start turning into Rumplestiltskin. So your form of sensitivity may differ from your wife's, and it may very well change over the duration of the treament too. Don't take it lightly. AS you've seen, neural herxing is a tricky proposition, and there's nothing I know of, other than avoidance, to really prepare for it.
Can't help you on the Polynesians. Not sure why you'd care, unless you were planning on making some sort of racial jump They don't seem to fare much better than the average, according to this site: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_lif_exp_at_bir_mal-health-life-expectancy-birth-male
Lots of factors involved in mortality, so it's not always a good yardstick. I'm certainly not qualified to speak to the possibility or lack thereof regarding possible genetic adaptations, but if 50% of folks in Papua New Guinea are seropositive for Lyme, that wouldn't point to virtual immunity either!
I haven't discounted the notion that there may be new and "improved" bugs out there in the world helping this pandemic along. Evolution is an arms race. Th1 might be flourishing in part because of increased exogenous D intake, but also because of some new strains of bugs. Mind you, this is utter and complete specualtion on my part. In the end, I don't care. Whatever bugs I have, I have to kill.
____________________
Reiter's Syndrome 25+ yrs, fatigue, joints, muscles, migraine, brainfog| 25D 6 ng/ml |Benicar May06|Ph1 June06|Ph 2 Sept06|Ph 3 Jan 07|NoIRs K-Cream Zinc Oxide cream - Always covered!
|
Afternoon Tea
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Wed Dec 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 26 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 19:52 |
|
Carricol,
In answer to your question about Dr. Mercola, I have an observation. I've been watching his site for years because my father-in-law has always been very obsessed with health food. What I have seen is that Dr. M changes his views over time on many things - over lots of time. My FIL used to eat only a vegetarian diet, then he added back in some meats, then he switched to mostly raw foods, then he got into raw milk and kefir products. In other words, he goes where the wind (or Dr. M) blow him, and it changes a lot. He also makes lots of money on whatever his current suggestions might be. Whatever diet advice you find, I promise, I can find completely contradictory advice some place else. It is the most frustrating thing!
With that said, I will also observe that my FIL is over 60 and is the healthiest and most fit person I know while his brothers and father suffer lots of ailments. Is this because of his diet or because he has a generally healthy lifestyle (exercise) or because he got all the good genes? I wish I knew.
____________________
Palindromic RA (Probably early classic RA) | 125D39 |Ph1 3/08 | 25D31 | Synthroid (.088mg due to thyroidectomy) | NoIRs | covered up, reduced lux home |
|
Dave L
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 20:14 |
|
"AS you've seen, neural herxing is a tricky proposition, and there's nothing I know of, other than avoidance, to really prepare for it.
Can't help you on the Polynesians. Not sure why you'd care, unless you were planning on making some sort of racial jump They don't seem to fare much better than the average, according to this site:....."
Knochen:
I was interested in how light might affect other populations that seem robust because I am interested in whether the deleterious effect is universal. And this because I don't really have the option at present of serious light reduction; just glasses and hat. This being the case, I've been trying to gague if or how much I am compromising my progress by light exposure.
In the final analysis, my questions were speculative, so I'll plug along.
About neuroherx; I will certainly try to monitor how light affects me. Regarding the matter I wrote about elsewhere, on reflection I have to admit that it was more bad judgement than anything else (such as IP).
thanks for your thoughts. .... Dave
____________________
Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
|
Joyful
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 600 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 21:43 |
|
On the Polynesian question...
Various theories have been rolling around in my head as I try to fit what is proposed by the MP to the health various people groups that Dr. Weston Price (dentist) did just as the "modern" refined diet was about to sweep all exclusive traditional diets away.
He was observing that the dental health of his younger patients was degenerating and decided to travel to places where the native diets were still in effect to document the variation in dental health. He also made observations about other aspects of their health including how balanced their temperments were, etc.
Native parents all had wide jaws, perfect teeth that fit well, and good bone structure. Children of parents who had begun to eat the newly introduced refined foods prior to conception had narrow bone structure, teeth that did not fit and dental carries. Other chronic illnesses that were previously unknown to these people groups had begun to be found following the introduction of the processed foods.
I've been wondering how Dr. Marshall's observations fit with Dr. Price's data.
And then I noticed that the theories about Crohn's disease described in 'wackypedia' discuss that it runs in families. Previously it was thought that it preferred certain racial lines, but it has been noted that Asians who come to America begin to get it in increasing numbers. Also, the incidence of Crohn's disease is increasing worldwide.
What is the clue to unlock some pattern here?
How about going for the most simple explanation?
How about saying that isolated groups have less exposure to infection AND their diets do not add to the problem?
What if the spread of infection to isolated people groups has been accomplished via the spread of processed foods that are unknowingly contaminated with pathogens that are able to change into forms that survive the high heat of processing?
It this is the case, then their Vitamin D intake is not the key issue UNTIL the infected persons and/or food arrive. THEN their D intake via sun and/or seafood simply speeds the rate at which the infection spreads in their bodies.
Thoughts anyone?
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 21:45 by Joyful
____________________
Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 01:17 |
|
I lived (and worked) in Papua New Guinea during 1974. It is hard to imagine how primitive man thought and acted, and looking at primitive tribes today can only give us a glimpse of the superstitions and dangerous concepts that sprang from those superstitions.
The best exposition of some of the rites that must have harmed the health of our forbears was given by Megan McCormick in her Globe Trekker profile of Vietnam. I have extracted the relevant clip, and put it online to try and give us a starting point for thinking and discussing the issue of 'native diets' raised by Joyful.
Before you view this, please make sure you don't faint at the animal blood. Concentrate on breathing deeply, and have somebody standing by your side. The clip is at:
http://curemyth1.org/flash/primitive_rites.html
(If this video doesn't play you will need to upgrade your browser to a recent version of Adobe/macromedia Flash player. There will be a link on the page, instead of the video, if you need to upgrade. The Adobe Flash player is free, and part of the web infrastructure.)
|
Joyful
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 600 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:50 |
|
I guess I'm not really thinking of the tribal primitive peoples per se, rather just people who at the time of Dr. Price's travels were free from chronic disease (see Nasty, Brutish, and Short?).
In my mind, I'm sorting out what the 'MP alternate hypothesis' is to refute the supposition that their fantastic health is due in part to lots of D in their diet.
Examining long lived, disease free and isolated peoples (some who drank blood, like the Masai, and some who didn't, like the Swiss) what would the MP science say made them long lived and chronic disease free?
Price would say it was diet. Others might suggest an environment free of toxins. Would the MP propose an environment with less pathogens?
____________________
Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
|
Carricol
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:33 |
|
According to some of the documents on the MP site there are at least 2 other factors besides vitamin D that may impact on chronic disease. These factors came into existence in the 20th century. Consequently, people living in earlier periods had little or no exposure to them.
1. Penicillins used for accute infections can cause some of the bacteria to morph into L-Form.
2. Injections of all kinds to include IVs, Blood transfusions, and vaccinations. It is difficult if not impossible to filter out the tiny L-Form bacteria. When you get a blood transfusion you could receive whatever L-form bacteria that the donor may have had.
Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:39 by Carricol
____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D38 Ph1 Nov07, fluoxitine Lithium Synthroid 5-HTP tyrosine, NOIRs lite exp r/t commute cover up, Ph2 Jan08 25D9 Feb08
|
Carricol
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:46 |
|
I found this on Doctor Mercola's Web Site. See Doctor Mercola's comments at the bottom.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/09/14/sarcoidosis.aspx
____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D38 Ph1 Nov07, fluoxitine Lithium Synthroid 5-HTP tyrosine, NOIRs lite exp r/t commute cover up, Ph2 Jan08 25D9 Feb08
|
Joyful
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 600 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:46 |
|
Thank you Carricol, for bringing up those significant factors. Indeed, we are making ourselves sicker by the day with all these modern medical practices!
____________________
Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:57 |
|
Joyful,
Any fool can subdivide population data into subsets small enough to prove their point, but it takes a scientist to stand back and see the big picture. In this case, we know that arthritis, stroke (and therefore Th1 disease) date from the time of the Neolithic Iceman, and probably back further. Borrelia species have been found dating that far back in phylogeny, as have many other microbes. Why focus just on modern man? By the time of modern man the lifespan of Homo sapiens had been fixed to sub-100 years by these pathogens. We need to look back much further in history.
As for refuting the 'Vitamin D is a Nutrient' hypothesis, well the moment any one of these silly people faces me on that one, I will be able to drill to the nub of the matter. Which will be looking at the data, their hypothesis, and the exclusions upon which their conclusions were reached.
As an example of what I mean, take a look at the short shrift Steve Strauss, a Canadian science journalist, recently made of the Garland paper on Diabetes...
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/strauss-vitamind.html
And you might also be interested in some of his earlier investigative journalism:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_strauss/20080213.html
|
Joyful
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 600 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 06:53 |
|
This strikes close to home today Dr. Marshall, as the nurse from my HMO doctor's office just read me my new 25D results (17 ng/mL) over the phone ...
... and then carefully read the stand-in doctor's instructions for me to immediately begin supplementing with 800IU/day. 
I cheerfully thanked her for the information ... as I fully intend to take advantage of their lab testing services, but not their misguided advice.
____________________
Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
|
Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 16:33 |
|
In a paper just published (15 July) the presence of Helicobacter pylori was established in Mexican Pre-Columbian Mummies from 1350AC.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2180/8/119/abstract/
Relatively recent in historical terms, but it does tell us that the Th1 pathogens have been around prior to Dr Price Pity they didn't look at the mummies to see what other DNA was actually present. Maybe next year...
|
Russ
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sat Mar 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 203 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 04:22 |
|
The fact that man was infected by these bugs going back to neolithic times always brings a question to my mind: If a properly functioning immune system can kill the TH1 pathogens, how did the initial infections take hold?
Nowadays, we all have these pathogens from birth, so our immune systems are never fully functioning. Plus there is all the fortified Vitamin D, high sugar diet, etc. But back in the Neolithic period, in order for a human to develop chronic disease back then, such as the reported cases of arthritis, would you have to assume that there was some outside factor compromising the immune system and allowing the bugs to take hold? What would that outside factor be?
____________________
Lyme/Borrelia, Connective Tissue Disease | May '06: 1-25D=59 25D=30 | Jul '06: Phase 1 | Aug '06 25D=16 | Oct '06 25D=6 | Nov '06: Phase 2 | Jul '07: Phase 3 | covering up & wearing NOIRs | no other meds or supplements
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
|
Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 04:46 |
|
Amy's presentation in Portugal (September) is focused on one of the mechanisms - the overexpression of 1,25-D and the VDR in the endometrium and pregnant decidua (take a look at her abstract: http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum39/12376.html )
Th1 Disease is strongly passed down the maternal line, that is clear from the epidemiology.
You need to think the other way around. First the female human body developed a method to protect the fetus from infection, and then the Th1 microbiota developed a way to pervert that protection. Because the chronic diseases usually do not strike before childbirth, they are not strongly recessive from the gene pool. At least, that's the way I see it
|
Current time is 09:48 | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6 7   |
|
|
|
|
