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Russ
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sat Mar 25th, 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 09:17 |
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Interesting. So since these diseases mostly strike after child-bearing years, there is no pressure on man's gene pool to adapt, so man has instead had to counter with a pharmaceutical intervention (the MP).
Do you foresee a point in the future, if the MP were widely adopted, where the bacteria would evolve a new mechanism for surivival in humans, perhaps by blocking some other receptor, and that man will need a new pharmaceutical intervention, like an agonist of that new receptor that is being blocked?
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Lyme/Borrelia, Connective Tissue Disease | May '06: 1-25D=59 25D=30 | Jul '06: Phase 1 | Aug '06 25D=16 | Oct '06 25D=6 | Nov '06: Phase 2 | Jul '07: Phase 3 | covering up & wearing NOIRs | no other meds or supplements
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 12:40 |
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Russ wrote: Do you foresee a point in the future, if the MP were widely adopted, where the bacteria would evolve a new mechanism for survival in humans, perhaps by blocking some other receptor
Without doubt. Mice and rats suffer from a similar set of skin biota, but the set is a little different. 95% the same, 5% difference in homology. So, assuming that these mammals also are supporting a pathogenic microbiota, the species in it must have adapted a little to the differing genome. You might enjoy browsing this paper:
http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/full/18/7/1043
Hopefully, this won't affect, you, me, or our grandchildren. We are talking about adaptations which have taken tens of thousands of years to mature to their current state.
Which is not to say that other pathogenic combinations may not appear/reappear to fill the void, just as SARS appeared/reappeared not all that long ago...
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Russ
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 23:51 |
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I hate bacteria. Why won't they just leave us alone. 
Seems like we need some sort of peace agreement with them. They can live on our skin and in our intestines and as long as they don't cause too much trouble or try to move on to other parts of the body we won't send our troops after them. Think they'd agree to that? Actually, I've wondered whether things like all the chlorine we now ingest in our water supply and other "toxic" stuff we ingest have made the intestines a less convenient home for the bacteria and has caused them to be more frequent migrators to other parts of the body. Ingesting chlorine...I go back and forth on whether it'd be best to filter that out...probably opens up a can of worms.
Last edited on Mon Jul 21st, 2008 23:52 by Russ
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Lyme/Borrelia, Connective Tissue Disease | May '06: 1-25D=59 25D=30 | Jul '06: Phase 1 | Aug '06 25D=16 | Oct '06 25D=6 | Nov '06: Phase 2 | Jul '07: Phase 3 | covering up & wearing NOIRs | no other meds or supplements
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 04:13 |
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I think the worst thing possible for our gut would be if we were to ingest an oily fluid mixed with a steroid. That would allow the bacteria in the gut to overcome the gut's immune defenses.
Oh wait - it's called 'milk'...
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Russ
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 05:46 |
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Lyme/Borrelia, Connective Tissue Disease | May '06: 1-25D=59 25D=30 | Jul '06: Phase 1 | Aug '06 25D=16 | Oct '06 25D=6 | Nov '06: Phase 2 | Jul '07: Phase 3 | covering up & wearing NOIRs | no other meds or supplements
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geneartemenko
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 01:55 |
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Hi,
Dr Marshall said:"I personally believe that UV light is not necessary for for Homo sapiens either. Mankind has been hung up on the "sunshine" concept, and has not gone looking for the enzyme which allows the electrocylic cleavage of the sterol ring. So they haven't found it"
Does it mean that we should cover ourself even at home with in-condense lighting (100 wt) or when we are using computer? (NOIR AS USUALLY ALWAYS).
Thank You
Gene
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Lyme 05 125D51 25D40(Aug07) Ph1 Feb08 NoIRs low lux home & work covered up on commute 25D19.3(May08) Ph2May08
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Claudia
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 04:58 |
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Hi Suecat!
I am an Australian/American and just thought I would "translate" this bit of Aussie food-talk for you:
I've found a good alternative to muffins are scones - I used un-enriched wholegrain/meal self raising flower and you can put a few sultanas through them. A bakery near me does the hard work for me (and has ingredients lists) but scones have no eggs - although they do traditionally contain a fair amount of milk. No sugar or sweetener needed either. A bit of butter on a sultana scone tastes great . Scones = biscuits (the kind you have with gravy in America... to further complicate the language barrier, they call cookies "biscuits" here!)
Wholegrain / wholemeal flour = wholewheat and self raising = self rising
Sultanas are white grape raisins, but of course any sort would do.
It will still be hard to find MP-suitable commercially made biscuits in America because of the ingredients, so that might defeat your purpose. Making them is easy, though... ask your grandmother for a buttermilk biscuit recipe! (One of the only fresh milk products I found in America without D added was buttermilk.)
Really, it's best to resign yourself to the necessity of doing a lot of your own cooking while on the MP. You will eat so much better, and it brings a new appreciation of healthy home cooking in general! Americans are losing so much heritage as well as health, in recent years, by abandoning real cooking from scratch. Every time I return to the States I am increasingly shocked and saddened by it.
When I spend time in America (which I have done a lot, on the MP) I keep a supply of powdered skim milk which does NOT have Vit D added. (I bring it from Australia, but I've heard you can get some brand without D added if you search hard enough.) And I only buy imported cheese, on the theory that it is much less likely to have added D or be made from milk with D already added.
For a good, cooked breakfast, I often make something a bit Mexican. Sautee in olive oil some onion, green pepper, chillis to taste (any other vegies that you like can be added) and then stir in either kidney beans or refried beans and some fresh chopped tomato; stir and cover to let it get a bit blended. Add some salsa or a touch of catsup or perhaps tabasco. I will have it as a "breakfast burrito" in a soft steamed corn tortilla, or with a small serve of rice; both options low in carbs. If you spice it up enough, you soon find you don't miss the cheese or eggs.
The other thing about breakfast-eating is to get past the habit of eating only "breakfast foods" (cereals, eggs, toast, pastries...) I often have dinner leftovers for breakfast. Yeah, people laugh at me, but hey, it's quick & easy and I did all the hard work cooking MP food the night before. Who needs the hassle first thing in the morning?!
 Claudia - in Australia
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MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs. Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Aug07 25D=28; Nov07 25D=36; Mar08 25D=16.4
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eClaire
Member in Phase 2
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 1007 |
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Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 06:11 |
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Another stupid article on Vitamin D deficiency on immunosupport.com entitled Vitamin D Deficiency - 'A Disease of Neglect' and Its Many Symptoms.
AAAARRRGGH!!!!!
If anyone would care to log on and comment, you can perhaps answer the one comment to the article: "So what does this do to the entire theory of the marshall protocol which claims that vit d is not a vitamin and rather a steroid?"
Lot's of folk read immunosupport.com and so a well reasoned response, which I don't feel up to at the moment (too much neuro IP and lots of pain at the moment), and some good links to perhaps bacteriality.com (as in Amy's article about the myths of Vit D) would be good.
Claire
Last edited on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 06:15 by eClaire
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CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermobility IBS/GERD osteoporosis 125D48 25D8 Ph1Dec06 ModPh2Jun07 NoIRs limited outings covered up low lux home abx brk 3/2 - 5/25/08 Ph 2 10/29/2008
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Carricol
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 00:46 |
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| I just put a response out there. If anyone would like take a look at it and let me know how you think I presented it.
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Sarcoidosis 125D38 Ph1 Nov07, fluoxitine Lithium Synthroid 5-HTP tyrosine, NOIRs lite exp r/t commute cover up, Ph2 Jan08 25D9 Feb08
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Julia
Advocate
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 01:04 |
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Carricol,
Your post was great
I replied to 'moineau' and we've had quite a conversation - she's very interested in the MP. But for some reason only my initial reply shows. (And they say MP.com is complicated!  )
Julia (aka Clarella  ) 
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Sarcoidosis, uveitis, hypercalcaemia, osteoarthritis, eczema. MP May 04.
Leading a full life - good old MP! Julia's story
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eClaire
Member in Phase 2
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 1007 |
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 04:10 |
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You know the picture game where you try to spot all of the objects hidden in the picture. Take a look at this article "Vitamin D's Wild Days, Who to test, What to take?" and see how many pieces of misinformation you can spot!
Claire
http://tinyurl.com/5tw4hv
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CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermobility IBS/GERD osteoporosis 125D48 25D8 Ph1Dec06 ModPh2Jun07 NoIRs limited outings covered up low lux home abx brk 3/2 - 5/25/08 Ph 2 10/29/2008
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Deb Grabetz
Advocate
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Posted: Thu Sep 11th, 2008 14:23 |
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How many have seen the recent cereal ads on TV? They are geared at parents, to provide more Vitamin D for their kids. I find it very alarming and sad, knowing what I do about Vitamin D. We work so hard at protecting our kids with approved car seats, avoiding passenger side air bags, helmets when bike riding, even restructuring the kids meals at fast food restaurants to eliminate all the fats. Yet now, there is not enough education for Vitamin D!
These new cereal boxes have banners across the entire box stating *new and improved* fortified with more CALCIUM and VITAMIN D. A new epidemic of unhealthy kids is looming over the horizon!
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Sarcoidosis/lungs, lymph,liver, GI, neuro, D12542, Ph17/07, MPh2 9/07, B12, cover up, NoIRs, low lux home, not working, 4/07D2511 1/08D25-0 CranialSacral weekly
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Freddie Ash
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Sep 11th, 2008 19:55 |
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HI DEB & ALL
This is Fred in WV. On the vit-D thing in food, I was just telling 2 different doctors the last 2 days that I did not understand how these people were aloud to put something into our food that was not even a nutrient. How are they aloud to put stroids into our food. They did not even understand that it was a stroid. It would be much easier for us to eat things if they would not add all these things to the food, but let us take something that we are short of by taking a pill. Keep up the great work Deb & all.
Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.
Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie
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Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-meds digitek, L-thyroxine, nexium, furosemide, nattokinase36mg,eat cinnamon w/meals,25D-7; 125-D43
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natalie17
Advocate
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 02:49 |
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Deb - it is sad. I am starting to see more ads for foods fortified with vitamin D here (in Australia) where not all dairy products etc are fortified with Vit D yet.
Apart from warn people who will listen there's not much we can do! I feel lucky that a) I'll actually be able to have kids one day and b) I'll know what truly is and isn't good for them .
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CFS/ME from June05| Ph1-July07| Ph2-Feb08 | Natalie's Story | ABCofMP
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Aunt Diana
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 03:27 |
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Maybe we need to start our own ad campaign. Are there any artists out there who could come up with a cute brochure showing the FAQ!s. We could present the data in an easy to understand simple to read handout and go to our local supermarkets and the schools. If each school nurse could be made aware of this we could make some progress.
Women have been known to do worse.
Look at what happened to ""lead paint". I think we more power than we realize.
Do I sound crazy?
MAVDA Mothers against Vit D Additives (I only meant to add this. forgot to use the "edit" buttom)Last edited on Fri Sep 12th, 2008 03:29 by Aunt Diana
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Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, Oxycodone, advil p/n, darvoocett p/n, lorazapam, ambien, benedryl, zantac, magnesium, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30l
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Joyful
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 600 |
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 03:30 |
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Crazy in all the right kinds of ways! 
Look at what various advocate groups have done to change the way people view all kinds of things.
Why not?
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Lyme?1980 Babs?05 Bart?05 CFS?06 | 125D50 Ph1Jul07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | NoIRs cover up but rarely leave low lux home | 25D15 Oct08 | ABC of MP
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natalie17
Advocate
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 03:32 |
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| I'm not bad with photoshop & used to do freelance graphic design work....
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CFS/ME from June05| Ph1-July07| Ph2-Feb08 | Natalie's Story | ABCofMP
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Aunt Diana
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 03:45 |
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Well, I don't know when I have ever felt so committed to something in my life.
I think if we keep the message simple and make it easy to understand with reasons (facts and data) to back up what we say...we could really do something with this. (I would not involve MP in any way because then it gets too complicated).
Let's get our heads together. Natalie, can you try to come up with something cute?
Others who are good writers....could you please send ideas.
Perhaps we should have a committee....any voluteeers?
Lets GO!!
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Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, Oxycodone, advil p/n, darvoocett p/n, lorazapam, ambien, benedryl, zantac, magnesium, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30l
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eClaire
Member in Phase 2
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 1007 |
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 04:10 |
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| I just wanted to point out that Amy would be a good source for research that supports the above-stated goals. So a handout that contains references to peer-reviewed research might be helpful (e.g., research that shows it to be a seco-steroid, that shows it to potentially have a negative effect on health, etc.). That might help give shape to the text. Claire
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CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermobility IBS/GERD osteoporosis 125D48 25D8 Ph1Dec06 ModPh2Jun07 NoIRs limited outings covered up low lux home abx brk 3/2 - 5/25/08 Ph 2 10/29/2008
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Aunt Diana
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 04:18 |
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| Your right, claire. She'd be the perfect one to write the copy. I hope she's not too busy for us when she gets back....she's gonna have her hands full.
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Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, Oxycodone, advil p/n, darvoocett p/n, lorazapam, ambien, benedryl, zantac, magnesium, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30l
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