 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
|
Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 14:49 |
|
Also, maybe not place for this question but am curious. If D is not a vitamin (because it is produced by body) why do we still call it Vit. D here on web site? Should we change that to also get public informed? Just wondering.
Indeed  You will find that at Porto I was saying "Vitamin D is not a Nutrient" as I think that makes a little more sense
|
expate
Member
|
Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 17:31 |
|
Here's another story in the mainstream media ("New York Times")touting the [perceived] benefits of fish oil on child behavior. Arrrrgggg!
http://tinyurl.com/NYTimes-Fishoil
 dette
____________________
Hypervitaminosis D 1,25-D 52 pg/ml, 25-D 38 (4/08), 25-D 34 (8/08), 25-D 29 (10/08), 25-D 14 (3/09), 25-D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09. Covered up, but no facemask any longer. NoIRs. Home low light.
|
Markt9452
Member
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 00:14 |
|
I tried some of that fish oil stuff when I was a kid. It didn't work very well for me. I probably should have known from the way it tasted...
Later on they invented gell caps and it was a lot easier to take...and fun to play with to. I remember me and my sisters throwing gell caps of cod-liver oil at each other.
But hey - if it that stuff works better than the placebo I guess it's OK - right? Isn't that how they do it?
I did disagree with one statement in the article though “Talk with your pediatrician,” Dr. Hallowell said. “This is all uncharted territory.”
I'm not so sure this is uncharted territory...
____________________
Th1 Lyme 125D20 D2510 Ph1Feb08 Ph2Apr08 daily lite exp covered up NoIRs| MyStory|
|
Claudia
Member
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 14:03 |
|
This treatment for children is complicated and should be discussed with respect for both sides. My child was dyslexic and ADHD until I started her on one of those fish oil formulations in grade 3. Within a week her behaviour improved so much that even she commented on it! Then she began reading, with fluency, books that she had struggled with only weeks earlier and began a life-long habit of voracious reading from that day on. It changed her life in such a dramatic way, I was singing the praises of the product for years afterwords...
HOWEVER... at the time I did not connect her brain-problems with her puzzling physical problems - swollen joints and chronic pain and food allergies - which got worse. A promising gymnast, she was washed up at age 9. She became very sensitized to food additives MSG (flavour enhancer) and Tartrazine (yellow food colouring) both of which are on the list of things to avoid while on the MP. With the wisdom of hindsight, of course, I now know she most likely has had Th1 disease all along and the fish oil made it much worse.
I am not sure how to feel about this. I am glad my child was helped and sad she was inadvertently harmed. If I had only known I would never have given it to her... But perhaps good science can re-develop the formulation to avoid the bad side effects - who knows?
I believe there are two different active chemicals in the fish oil - on one hand, there is the "Omega 3 fatty acids" and on the other hand there is the "Vitamin D". I don't know enough about nutrition to understand if they are inseperable, but I have seen a product (extracted from fish oil) which is advertized as a purified Omega 3 supplement. If it is shown not to contain the dreaded "D" perhaps it can be used to help these children without causing any harm.
Can anyone commment on this?
There is no doubt in my mind that the fish oil formula for dyslexia/ADHD is effective in doing what it claims. Exactly how it works is open to debate. It could be an effective yet dangerous steriod. Or it could be a genuinely necessary nutritional supplement. If nutrition researchers are ethical, and we can educate them about the harm "Vitamin D" poses, they should be happy to learn about it and work to improve the formula.
My point is, only good communication and cooperation between scientists will sort problems like this out. Companies with products to sell should not be influencing research or misrepresenting / selectively citing research data in order to make a profit. We need to help get the word out so the GOOD scientists have an opportunity to learn and use the cutting edge research that Dr Marshall and his colleagues are producing.
From Trevor: Claudia, there is no way to "improve the fish oil formula" as the steroidal immunosuppression it achieves is entirely due to the high Vitamin D content. Fish oil is very harmful, especially to children. Cod Liver Oil is especially so, as was shown in a recent Norwegian study. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANY HUMAN INGEST FISH OIL OR COD LIVER OIL. Exogenous Vitamin D is always harmful to the body. It is immunosuppressive at all doses. Concentrated Vitamin D (in oils) can only do long-term harm, never any long-term good.
(ADHD and Autism are both caused by the Th1 microbiota).
(Most benefits attributed to the Omega fatty-acids result from the concomitant Vitamin D in their formulations).
Last edited on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 15:01 by
____________________
MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs. Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Aug07 25D=28; Nov07 25D=36; Mar08 25D=16.4
|
expate
Member
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 14:22 |
|
Julia, what a concise and clear summary you've made. Impressive.
Claudia, I am no scientist, but it seems to me that the fish oil, working as it does, is simply palliative. I would think it best to treat the underlying cause from the very beginning (now that we know bettter). I suppose there might be instances in which the benefitss from short term palliative treatment outweight the long term harm of letting infection go untreated, but I'd be hard put to imagine any.
dette
____________________
Hypervitaminosis D 1,25-D 52 pg/ml, 25-D 38 (4/08), 25-D 34 (8/08), 25-D 29 (10/08), 25-D 14 (3/09), 25-D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09. Covered up, but no facemask any longer. NoIRs. Home low light.
|
Freddie Ash
Member
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 17:10 |
|
HI ALL
This is Fred in WV. I am always telling every one that will listen about the MP and viti-D.
First - I tell them that bactiera is causing all these autoimmune diseases, strokes & heart disease.
Second - I tell them the dactiera lives on the vit-D & iron in our body.
Third - I tell them that we are all being told my the news media that we should take more vit-D and then how this just suppresses the immune system so this bactirea can live much easier. I also get blunt and tell them that the bactiera will some day kill you, yes the doctors will call it heart attack, heart failure, liver failure, or even kindney failure, but it will be the TH1 bacteria that caused you to have these killer things that kill you. Also, I tell them, yes vit-D might make you feel better for a while, but that is because it suppresses the immune system, but over the long run it will make you sicker and kill you.
Fourth - I give them an example of using things that have vit-D added(such as Fosmax-D, all the things we eat with added v-D, calcium with D). I tell them about my cousin's wife dieing after she was taking extra vit-D for osteo. I had talked to her 2 1/2years ago. Then she came down with cancer. Then a few weeks later she died of a heart attack. I say see that extra vit-D did nothing to prevent her from cancer or heart disease.
This sums up about what I tell people when I am talking to them about the harm of all this extra vit-D that we are getting.
Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.
Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie
____________________
Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-meds digitek, L-thyroxine, nexium, furosemide, nattokinase36mg,eat cinnamon w/meals,25D-7; 125-D43
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 18:11 |
|
Hector Deluca, the Vitamin D expert who trained Michael Holick and a generation of Vit-D zealots, stepped down last year to treat a Lymphoma (cancer).
http://www.wisbiomed.org/biotech_news/index.php?category_id=578&subcategory_id=2187
I guess Hector would say that 75 years is a good innings, and that Vitamin D has kept him strong throughout those years. I guess I would say that Vitamin D is what gave him the Lymphoma, and Vit D is why I will be very surprised if he ever returns to active public visibility.
Hector's group produced the Xray structure for the Rat VDR that formed the basis of my major breakthroughs. I am grateful for their work, but a little scornful that they had the Holy Grail in their hands, but didn't recognize it.
A poster at the Porto conference was presented by one of Hector's students, but Hector was not there. The student told us that Hector had fully recovered from the lymphoma. Yes. Sure...
|
Knochen
Moderator
| Joined: | Thu Feb 23rd, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 380 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 21:45 |
|
Also, I tell them, yes vit-D might make you feel better for a while, but that is because it suppresses the immune system, but over the long run it will make you sicker and kill you.
Freddie,
I've been using an analogy on the few people I have around me who will listen to my commentary about "vitamin" D. I hear it all the time, "But I feel so much better when I take vitamin D, and if I stop I feel so awful, how could it possibly be bad for me? I must need it." My response has been, "And smoking a cigarette will make you "feel better" too, and stopping smoking will make you feel worse. I'm sure cigarettes must be good for you too! Obviously you need them."
The look of horror on their faces as the possibility dawns that they may be wrong on such a grand scale is wonderful to see. The analogy seems to work because most people know how medical science treated cigarettes for so long, and how even after they were known to be bad, the general populace continued on either in ignorance or denial despite all evidence. They also recognize that you have to feel worse before you feel better when you stop smoking. If they seem receptive, I point out that they are already a "smoker" with regards to Vit D because it's added to so many things in the normal diet. So additional D is just their way of looking for a fix and a way of avoiding the pain needed to get over their addiction. You can almost see their hands go over their ears while they cry, "No no no! It can't be true! Dr. Marcus Welby would never lie to me like that!"  I hardly have the heart to tell them it's a hormone after that...
Denial is a powerful thing. I wish I could run my car on it. It's everywhere!
____________________
Reiter's Syndrome 25+ yrs, fatigue, joints, muscles, migraine, brainfog| 25D 6 ng/ml |Benicar May06|Ph1 June06|Ph 2 Sept06|Ph 3 Jan 07|NoIRs K-Cream Zinc Oxide cream - Always covered!
|
Markt9452
Member
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 23:33 |
|
This article from April 29 2008 says that DeLuca started taking D supplements only a couple of years ago...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/25/AR2008042503119_pf.html
"Another option for increasing the nutrient's levels in the blood is to take a dietary supplement with Vitamin D, a practice that DeLuca began a couple of years ago..."
If that's accurate it would mean he started supplementing in 2006. It didn't take very long for him to get cancer after he started supplementing with D. Just two years.
Interestingly enough the article is titled...A Too-Good-to-Be-True Nutrient?
Deluca was supplementing at 1000 IU per day of D and eating lots of fortified foods.
Here is one of Delucas quotes " Persons diagnosed with sarcoidosis, other granulomatous disease, cancer (especially lymphoma) or hyperparathyroidism should not take vitamin D unless they are under the care of a knowledgeable physician (and would be well advised to find one). Patients with these conditions may develop vitamin D hypersensitivity syndrome which is different than vitamin D toxicity." http://www.ndmnutrition.com/vit.%20d%20inflam
____________________
Th1 Lyme 125D20 D2510 Ph1Feb08 Ph2Apr08 daily lite exp covered up NoIRs| MyStory|
|
expate
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 04:50 |
|
Knochen,
As to your analogy... a story. I took water aerobics classes and had to listen to a very reactionary fellow in the adjacent water walking lane decry EVERY liberal, progressive issue. One day, I heard him decry the opposition to drilling for oil in the arctic, he sited a study that showed that the pipeland was beneficial to animals because they would gather round it enjoying the warmth it gave.
I could not take any more. I said, "Just because something makes a person feel better doesn't mean they are better. I mean, look at a heroin junkie. A dose of heroin make him/her feel "all" better, but does it make him healthier?
I don't think so.
Late and later,
Odette
____________________
Hypervitaminosis D 1,25-D 52 pg/ml, 25-D 38 (4/08), 25-D 34 (8/08), 25-D 29 (10/08), 25-D 14 (3/09), 25-D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09. Covered up, but no facemask any longer. NoIRs. Home low light.
|
Freddie Ash
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 12:46 |
|
HI ALL
This is Fred in WV. Thank you Knochen, Mark, & Odette for those stroies also. I failed to say also that I tell them too that Fosmax-D has a warning in there add that you should not take any is you have SARCOIDOSIS, LYMPHOMA & ECT. I once told a Rheumatologist this about the Fosmax-D and he said, "I HOPE YOU DO NOT COME ACROSS ANY OF MY PATIENTS THAT I HAVE GIVEN FOSMAX TOO!"
Also, my MP doctor(an alternative medicine doctor) is one that pushes vit-D so he just listens to what I tell him about the vit-D. He claims to have done some surveys of his own and finds no harm in giving more. I tell him something new every time I go in and he says he is interested in Dr Marshall work, but hopes he is not over looking the GOOD it is doing. I always think to my self,"WHAT GOOD, I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY GOOD." At one of my Autoimmune Support Group meetings we had a new lady. After talking to her about the harm of vit-D and fish oils, she said she went to a doctor that gave her a lot of both. She said she got so sick she had to stop the fish oil. Then she told me her doctor's name and it was the same one that I saw for my MP meds. I do not know what she did after that becasue she has not been to any more of our meetings.
Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us
Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie
____________________
Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-meds digitek, L-thyroxine, nexium, furosemide, nattokinase36mg,eat cinnamon w/meals,25D-7; 125-D43
|
Caitiegirl
Member
|
Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 03:03 |
|
Fred,
Our doctor is the same way. He feels that there is still a place for D supplementation especially for cancer patients. I always feel a little uneasy that we may have the plug pulled on us because I'm not sure he truly believes in this protocol. I just hope that in a few months we can revisit him and be a picture of health and it will change his opinion.
Mindy
____________________
Caitie(19) lyme,seizures, myoclonus, dystonia, digestive, chronic headache, mental fog: 10/23/07 25D 36 1,25D 58, 1/18/08 25D 9.9 Cut sun/D 9/26/07 Benicar 10/25/07, NoIRs 10/29/07
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
|
Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 03:13 |
|
During one of the Porto presentations the speaker (from Italy) said I was right about Vit D being a steroid, and he agreed on a number of other points. Maybe we need to get together a short video with just these comments, showing that I am not the only wierdo in the world
|
Julia
.
|
Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 07:55 |
|
Even the Vitamin D Council says D is a steroid hormone. But then says we all need more of it... of course 
|
Freddie Ash
Member
|
Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 18:02 |
|
HI DR MARSHALL & ALL
This is Fred in WV. The vidio would be great to give to the doctors. Just let me know when I can get them.
Mindy, I try to not rock the boat after all he has agreed to write my Rx and is still listening to me when I tell him something new that has come out on the vit-D. When I go in to see my family doctor, the first thing out of his mouth is,"WELL WHAT HAVE YOU AND TREVOR BEEN DOING??". Of course if there is anything new(and most of the time I do have something new) I will tell him. Two weeks ago I gave 2 of my doctors copies of the Porto Conference and they both were impressed that they said they were going to set down and read all the ones that were there to talk. I will take more info when Dr Marshall and his staff get things ready to give to doctors and others.
Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.
Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie
____________________
Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-meds digitek, L-thyroxine, nexium, furosemide, nattokinase36mg,eat cinnamon w/meals,25D-7; 125-D43
|
Jeannine
Health Professional
| Joined: | Sun Aug 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 665 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Sep 21st, 2008 08:23 |
|
I think Amy Proals comprehensive Video (you can view it on http://www.bacteriality.com or order DVD) of the MP is great synopsis that one could give to their docs...it is 85 mins and has all the info in a nutshell. Anyone can get them from Gene for 4 dollars via pay pal or check.
The DVD presents all the info in one place, with easy to understand information with science and evidence to back it up. The graphics, quotes, etc keep ones attention.
Getting other video of other doctors, phDs, researcher commenting on VitD would also be a great idea to buck those who still love their Vit D. Power in numbers!!!
Maybe we should have one thread or website that complies all the videos in one place instead of having it scattered?
Jeannine
Please see DVDs
____________________
CFS FM Lyme Morgellon's 125D49 Ph1Aug06 25D <4 april 08)Prozac Valium Aleve ModPh2May07 Ph2Apr08 NoIRs limited outings covered lo lux home
|
Carricol
Member
|
Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 00:52 |
|
Doctor Mercola is still out there pushing vitamin D.
http://tinyurl.com/Mercola-VitaminD
____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D38 Ph1 Nov07, fluoxitine Lithium Synthroid 5-HTP tyrosine, NOIRs lite exp r/t commute cover up, Ph2 Jan08 25D9 Feb08
|
Claudia
Member
|
Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 04:44 |
|
Note also that he specifically steers people away from testing 1,25D. No doubt because he can't get the results to support his claims.
____________________
MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs. Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Aug07 25D=28; Nov07 25D=36; Mar08 25D=16.4
|
Deb Grabetz
Moderator
|
Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 12:13 |
|
| A few weeks ago, I emailed Dr. Mercola's site regarding the *pushing* of Vitamin D online. My email was in regard to those with chronic illness and specific to Sarcoid and the dangers that they were promoting by pushing Vitamin D. I did not mention that I was on the Marshall Protocol. Their customer service dept actually emailed me a link to Autoimmunity Research Foundation, in agreement with my statements! I looked through all of my emails for this but must have deleted the info.
____________________
Sarcoidosis/lungs, lymph,liver, GI, neuro, D12542, Ph17/07, MPh2 9/07, B12, cover up, NoIRs,return to work after 2 years off- 4/07D2511
5/09 D25<4
|
Aunt Diana
Member
|
Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 00:32 |
|
| I must be living on another planet...but will someone please tell me who is Dr. Mercola?
____________________
Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, hydrocodone, lorazapam, , benedryl, zantac, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30lux
|
Current time is 01:23 | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8   |
|
|
|
|
