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Phil Schoner
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 25th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 32 |
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Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 02:17 |
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I recently found out that my May, 08 125D was 74, up from 50. I have never had TH1 symptoms. I started a theraputic probe in Nov with no big herxs other than a headache for a day and some fatigue a few days. These mild reactions stopped quickly, and I finally found a doc that would prescribe the meds I need. After 2 weeks with no herxing on full ph1 mino, I graduated myself to ph2 yesterday. So far only a weird dream last night.
I have started avoiding D. I have not limited sun exposure. So far, so good.
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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expate
Member
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Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 03:11 |
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Welcome. And keep reading.
Odette
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Hypervitaminosis D 1,25-D 52 pg/ml, 25-D 38 (4/08), 25-D 34 (8/08), 25-D 29 (10/08), 25-D 14 (3/09), 25-D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09. Covered up, but no facemask any longer. NoIRs. Home low light.
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 03:52 |
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Hi Phil;
If you are just starting avoiding D, it may be that your herx symptoms will be subdued until your D levels come down. At least that is what people tell me, as mine remain negligible after 6 mo. on mod. Phase 2. I get tired a bit more and have periodic leg cramps, but that's about it. I've been avoiding D since Feb, and I am awaiting results of my recent blood tests with great interest. (hope the 25D is down!)
On the other hand, maybe - hopefully - folks doing this prophylactically may be in for an easier ride. We'll all know better as we progress through it.
Top of the Season to you and all on the MP!
Dave
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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Phil Schoner
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 25th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 32 |
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Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 15:09 |
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A little more info re my progress: My 1,25 D dropped from 74 to 37 after a week plus on Benicar alone as I started my treatment. I understand that this is expected. At that point I added the 25 mg. mino of phase 1. After about 2 weeks on the mino I got my 25 D tested. It had been in the 19-22 range over the past few years and it is now 16. I have been avoiding D, but not sure that this has been responsible for this drop, as I have not had that much D to avoid. Does the MP itself drop the D? I am told that a D of 12 is necessary to initiate bug killing/herxing.
I am now in cycle 1 of phase 2 with no herxing to report. I plan to avoid D in my diet, and will avoid sunlight when and if it bothers me. I do use micronized zinc sunscreen (SPF 60) when in the sun.
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 15:49 |
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Phil,
1. Don't use sunscreen unless you are photosensitive and really need it. The zinc may adversely affect the way your body works.
2. Healthy people will not have perceptible IP. That doesn't mean that the microbiota is not there to be killed off, just that it is doing no harm at this stage in your life, just laying low until later..
3. Figure 1 of my Bioessay shows why the Vit D metabolite levels are affected by VDR and PXR and P300. benicar starts up the VDR, hence the fast initial drop in 1,25-D. Mino is a PXR agonist, although at the 25mg level I would not be expecting it to downregulating 25-D. But who knows?
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 16:44 |
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Trevor,
regarding pt. 2 in your response to Phil, does this mean that bugs are getting killed off in the "prophylactic MP folk" even if herx symptoms are not especially apparent?
Last edited on Wed Dec 24th, 2008 16:46 by Dave L
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 18:10 |
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Yes, 'healthy' people carry the Th1 microbiota too, slowly accumulating. That is why they get struck down by the diseases of aging - Stroke, Heart Disease, Alzheimers, etc.
Very few make it to the same age as this interesting gentleman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK_laAjtVNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1kWR1RPxbk
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 18:31 |
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Well, that's great news, if we are killing bugs even without getting knocked about with herxing. If at least some of the people who do the MP early enough can take it as mid-life tune-up with relatively little disruptive effects; then it may become more known, and even commonplace. As a widespread prophylactic, what vast benefits for the long-term quality of life for people.
I will be fascinated to see how Phase 3 treats me as the Zith kicks in.
Dave
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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Phil Schoner
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 25th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 32 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2009 00:59 |
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I am now in the middle of phas 2 - 1/4 z and 100 mg. mino, my second cycle of 1/4 z, and I have a curious IP to report.
I have experienced lower back pain from time to time in the last 20 some years, usually associated with some physical activity such as lifting. My incidences of these muscle pulls have been usually separated by years of no pain at all, and the muscle recovers after 5-7 days. On day 2 of my first cycle of 1/4 z I pulled this same lower back muscle doing nothing more than bending slightly over as I was chipping the golf ball (I play a lot of golf.). I am aware that one can pull a lower back muscle doing the most innocant of activities, but this one was really hardly any activity at all. I told my wife, Carol, about this incident and she informed me that others on the MP had reported similar muscle pulls, and had attributed it to an IP. OK I told myself, now I too had experienced it.
The muscle pull healed very quickly and was gone in 2 days, much sooner than previous pulls. I attributed this to the mildness of the pull, and perhaps to the fact that it was more of an IP then a pull brought on by careless physical activity involving the lower back.
As they say on TV: But wait, there's more. On day 3 of my third cycle of 1/4 z I experienced the very same muscle pull, again doing nothing more than slightly bending over playing golf (I told you I play a lot of golf.). Once again it is healing quickly. Usually my bouts with these pulls are separated by years, not by 2 weeks as now.
Although these muscle pulls are not my only IP's (I have experienced slight joint pain and ringing in ears) I find it curious that bacteria could be related to muscle pulls.
Phil
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Phil Schoner, MP Support Spouse, no symptoms, 125D 74 5/08, 25D 16 12/08, 25D 16 7/09, ph1 11/08, ph2 12/08, ph3 7/09
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John McDonald
Foundation Director
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Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2009 02:31 |
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Welcome aboard Phil. We will make up a badge and a hat for you. It is an odd thing, experiencing this protocol. Somedays my hands cramp like mad while typing. Nothing else and only for a couple of hours. Muscles and spasms and cramps indeed. Now we get to see if at the end of this if you can drive an extra 100 yards.
-john
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RA 125D38, MP 9/05 Ph2 12/05 Ph3 09/06, Oct07 2510, NoIRs lite exp r/t work covered up
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 17:41 |
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Well team, I started Phase 3 today by adding 1/8 tab zith. I've sort of backed into this, as I'd been on a modified Phase 2 taking max doses of Clindy (150) and Mino (100) with no apparent effect other occasional leg cramps and a bit lower energy level. Been at it a year now, so Dr. Blaney suggested I move on to Zith.
I'll keep you posted, although I am hoping I will continue to dodge the Herx grenade.
cheers
Dave
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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John McDonald
Foundation Director
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 18:31 |
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Dave - 1/8 Z plus max M and C or did you wisely reduce those?
Hopefully you've no brain microbes to kill after all. If this does rock your world then I suggest you ask doc if you can cut back to tiny quantities of all 3.
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RA 125D38, MP 9/05 Ph2 12/05 Ph3 09/06, Oct07 2510, NoIRs lite exp r/t work covered up
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BARNEY
Moderator
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 18:33 |
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OH PHIL,
So glad you are on board. Looking forward to your recovery.
HANG IN THERE, WE WILL MAKE IT!!!BARNEY
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 18:52 |
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"Dave - 1/8 Z plus max M and C or did you wisely reduce those?
Hopefully you've no brain microbes to kill after all. If this does rock your world then I suggest you ask doc if you can cut back to tiny quantities of all 3."
John, Afraid not. I asked for specific instructions about reducing my other abx doses and was told only to start with 1/8 tab Z. So I stayed full strength. I guess I can reduce the next dose in 48 hrs if I get a bad ride. Hope nothing was lost in translation.
I'll keep my fingers crossed and fasten my seat belt.
And warn Deb.
cheers, Dave
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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John McDonald
Foundation Director
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 19:17 |
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Ride 'em Cowboy!
You probably knew in advance what I would have said. When I reached the end of phase-2, I was in a position similar to yours. The full dose of Zith and full dose of mino was like so much candy, very little effect. I did reduce my doses to, 1/4 full dose of all 3. And my brain exploded. But like a drunk, that part of me that would know I was overdoing it was disabled. So I went about 3 months of being badly compromised before I killed enough microbes to regain enough sense that I was herxing intolerably. So from candy to hand grenades in my brain overnight.
I dropped all 3 meds even more. I am still not back up to 1/4 zith, though I am on 1/2 full dose of M and C now.
You very likely will not go through that, but that is why I would urge caution with the triple combo. It had way more punch for me than I ever would have expected. In fact I hadn't any serious neuro-herxing before phase-3. And arguably the reason you are doing the MP prophylactically is just so you might discover something, uh, fun, in there. But you are underway now so let's start the timer and see how long you can ride that bull! Very likely you won't have any excitement.
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RA 125D38, MP 9/05 Ph2 12/05 Ph3 09/06, Oct07 2510, NoIRs lite exp r/t work covered up
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 19:25 |
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Whoopee.
Yikes.
...Gulp.
John, I doubt Deb would let me get away with 3 months of neuro nukes without reining me in. The next 48 hours may tell the tale and I can reduce mino and clindy then if needed.
D
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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John McDonald
Foundation Director
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 19:42 |
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This is why we have good wives, to make us smarter. Give Deb my best.
-john
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RA 125D38, MP 9/05 Ph2 12/05 Ph3 09/06, Oct07 2510, NoIRs lite exp r/t work covered up
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expate
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 22:23 |
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Wow, I started Phase 3 yesterday too! I am doing the MP somewhat prophylactically as well, though I did come to find that I had more th1 issues than I knew.
I kept my Z at 125 mg, lowered my Mino to 25 mg, and started with whatever the beginning dose of Clindy is (I had it compounded to that, so I wouldn't have to keep track). Yesterday I felt fine. This morning, not so much. I had chills, felt kind of nauseous, was kind of dizzy, and felt anxious. Now, it could have been the wine from last night, but I didn't have more than usual (which is kind of a lot  ). I've determined this would be a good time to nix the alcohol - something I've been wanting to do anyhow. 
I was scared of Clindy as I suspect I'll have some neuro issues. We'll see how the next couple of days go.
Odette
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Hypervitaminosis D 1,25-D 52 pg/ml, 25-D 38 (4/08), 25-D 34 (8/08), 25-D 29 (10/08), 25-D 14 (3/09), 25-D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09. Covered up, but no facemask any longer. NoIRs. Home low light.
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 22:43 |
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Gee, Odette,
It will interesting to compare notes. As I mentioned earlier, I'd been on modified Phase 2 so its the Zith that's new for me, instead of the Clindy, which I've been gobbling without much ill-effect.
I am entering an incredibly busy period in a new business, so I am hopeful that my noggin stays sound.
Wishing you good luck and good healing.
cheers
Dave
Last edited on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 22:44 by Dave L
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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Dave L
Member
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Posted: Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 00:21 |
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Got results from my Dec 3 blood tests. My 25-D is down to 25.2 (from 30.4 last summer).
This end of my first 48 hours on zith; I took regular doses of clindy and mino again. Only effect so far if any, is a case of the slows: low on energy, sort of sleepy, but no discomfort.
Since this is a 10-day affair, something may crop up in a few days.
cheers
Dave
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Dave Loeks: High 1,25-D (54.2 pg/ml) 25D - 30.4 ng/ml no apparent symptoms, otherwise fit, healthy. Reduced Vit. D intake, moderate reduction in light exposure (outside work). Started Benicar 9 April, 2008; Benicar and Mino 23 April, 2008.
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